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Coutinho benefit for Firmino

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Zimmerman
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Coutinho benefit for Firmino

Post by Zimmerman »

These are Firmino's figures (for all games)

12 games without Coutinho playing
5 goals (and 3 assists)
Matches:
Watford (a) 1
Hoffenheim (a)
Palace (h)
Hoffenheim (h) 1
Arsenal (h) 1
City (a)
Sevilla (h) 1
Huddersfield (h) 1
Maribor (h)
West Ham (a)
Stoke (a)
Everton (h)

15 games with Coutinho playing
11 goals (and 5 assists)
Matches:
Burnley (h)
Leicester (a)
Moscow (a)
United (h)
Maribor (a) 2
Spurs (a)
Saints (h)
Sevilla (a) 2
Brighton (a) 2
Moscow (h) 1
West Brom (h)
Bournemouth (a) 1
Arsenal (a) 1
Swansea (h) 2
Leicester (h)

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Zimmerman
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Re: Coutinho benefit for Firmino

Post by Zimmerman »

Looking at just the league games, here are the FPL points (games without in green):
Watford (a) 12
Palace (h) 2
Arsenal (h) 12
City (a) 2

Burnley (h) 2
Leicester (a) 2
United (h) 2
Spurs (a) 2
Huddersfield (h) 8
West Ham (a) 2

Saints (h) 5
Stoke (a) 2
Brighton (a) 13
West Brom (h) 2
Bournemouth (a) 12
Arsenal (a) 11
Swansea (h) 13
Leicester (h) 2

7 games without: Firmino averaged 5.7 ppg
11 games with: Firmino averaged 6 ppg

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Zimmerman
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Re: Coutinho benefit for Firmino

Post by Zimmerman »

All Comps

Code: Select all

Liverpool Without
P	W	D	L	F	A
13	10	2	1	33	16

Liverpool With
P	W	D	L	F	A
18	8	8	2	47	20

League Games only

Code: Select all

Liverpool Without
P	W	D	L	F	A
9	6	2	1	21	11
				
Liverpool With					
P	W	D	L	F	A
13	6	6	1	29	14

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hayesag
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Re: Coutinho benefit for Firmino

Post by hayesag »

so the point is whether firmino plays with coutinho or not he will still generate the points :?

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Re: Coutinho benefit for Firmino

Post by hancockjr »

Or that Barca should also sign Firmino?

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Re: Coutinho benefit for Firmino

Post by Zimmerman »

I have seen on more than a few occasions recently the suggestion that Coutinho leaving would be bad (or detrimental) for Firmino ownership.
As an owner, I though I should take a look.

Watching the games, i don't see it... but after last nights turgid affair it got me a bit worried.
Undoubtedly, Liverpool aren't as good as they are with Coutinho - its just a case of whether Mane, Salah and Lallana can pick up the slack if the little maestro goes.

Salah carrying an injury (assuming its trivial and resolved before next weekend)
Mane hasn't been that great this season.
Lallana has missed a fair bit of action this season (and looked way off the pace last night).

So time will tell.

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Re: Coutinho benefit for Firmino

Post by bcfc1903 »

Looks most likely that Coutinho is off to Barcelona as the BBC are reporting a £142m deal agreed.

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Re: Coutinho benefit for Firmino

Post by skip »

This is interesting. Firmino is somewhat of an FPL enigma anyway seemingly going through scoring streaks then blanks that are difficult to predict. I watch most Liverpool games and with the role Bobby plays in the team he often drops deep to pick up possession or holds the ball centrally, usually amongst several defenders, to create space for others. He's so good at this that it appears time slows down around him on the ball! For him to get into scoring positions he needs firstly someone to supply him the ball, and not to be spending all his time deep recycling possession. This I think is why he has better output with Coutinho around because Phil occupies defenders in central areas when he has the ball, and he puts in great balls to score from. Mane and Salah don't play like this, but Lallana does, so if he gets starts now I'd still be optimistic on Coutinho.

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Re: Coutinho benefit for Firmino

Post by No Way Jose »

Coutinho confirmed gone for 142m

Firmino is still a great pick IMO

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Re: Coutinho benefit for Firmino

Post by Stevieste »

Firmino might be back on pens now He gone, unless Milner on the pitch of course

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Re: Coutinho benefit for Firmino

Post by Kevlar »

I don't know much about how he's been deployed, but does this give the Ox more gametime and make him a more interesting proposition?

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Re: Coutinho benefit for Firmino

Post by murf »

Kevlar wrote:I don't know much about how he's been deployed, but does this give the Ox more gametime and make him a more interesting proposition?
Obviously one less rival - unless a rumoured signing (Mahrez, Sanchez, early Keita arrival etc etc) occurs

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Re: Coutinho benefit for Firmino

Post by Stevieste »

murf wrote: 06 Jan 2018, 22:07
Kevlar wrote:I don't know much about how he's been deployed, but does this give the Ox more gametime and make him a more interesting proposition?
Obviously one less rival - unless a rumoured signing (Mahrez, Sanchez, early Keita arrival etc etc) occurs

Talks that Mahrez is a done deal for 49 million and will have medical tomorrow.

Can see him having a free role in the middle of Mane and Salah with Firminio up top.

Good signing that i feel.

They should got for Sanchez as well, they ha e the money

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Re: Coutinho benefit for Firmino

Post by murf »

Skint now.

VdV (75) + Mahrez (49) > Coutinho initial fee (105)!

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math!
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Re: Coutinho benefit for Firmino

Post by math! »

I can imagine they will go for a replacement. Even Thomas Lemar may be a consideration.

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Re: Coutinho benefit for Firmino

Post by blahblah »

Zimmerman wrote: 06 Jan 2018, 12:24 Lallana has missed a fair bit of action this season (and looked way off the pace last night).
From what I saw I thought he did OK considering how long it has been ie sharpness etc was lacking, but his movement, positioning, passing (both seeing and delivering) etc looked good.

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Re: Coutinho benefit for Firmino

Post by Zimmerman »

He was slow, weak and cumbersome on the ball.

Not sure he’s been hitting the gym or the Big Macs, but looked a bit bulkier too.

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Re: Coutinho benefit for Firmino

Post by blahblah »

It's been longer since he last played than Theo? :lol:

I should confess to kinda rating Lalla, and he did rather well for me last season.... so there could be some Arsene tinted giggs :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Coutinho benefit for Firmino

Post by Kris_fiso »

Well Firmino does not score as many when Coutinho is not playing so im thinking of getting rid

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Re: Coutinho benefit for Firmino

Post by Smurphy Paw »

Kris_fiso wrote: 09 Jan 2018, 01:40 Well Firmino does not score as many when Coutinho is not playing so im thinking of getting rid
I’ve seen a few comparisons. I suspect there’s a degree of truth in Coutinho adding value (to any team) but Liverpool have fared almot as well without him (1.8 to 1.9ppg).
Lallana’s return is also a factor so I’ll probably keep but keep a closer eye on the team for signs of impact.
Ditto Salah when he returns

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Re: Coutinho benefit for Firmino

Post by Mav3rick »

I need to decide what to do with Firmino, on the one hand I've been happy with his points since making the switch in GW14 (the points he's had in that time I'd be happy with Kane or Aguero scoring, so he's clearly done well enough to justify his slot. The problem, as above with others, is if the loss of Coutinho is felt on the pitch (it will be felt in my draft teams no doubt :(). Selling him comes with an issue too though, namely a significant price upgrade is necessary (for Aguero) or a better value option lower down the striker range.

I'm not at all adverse to switching to a two striker setup (Alonso as the replacement striker most likely) in that scenario but which second striker is better than Firmino, if Aguero doesn't fit the price range?

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Re: Coutinho benefit for Firmino

Post by Zimmerman »

same boat for me.

Its either Hazard/Firmino -> x/Aguero (and in reality some additional moves too) or i stick with him.

Just seems too much disruption.

I keep trying to convince myself he will be ok.
The quandary we will have is that he is a bit of a patchy player anyway... so how long do we give him (or how knee-jerky should we be)?!
I just don't fancy the likes of Vardy (and I'm not a fan of the single forward either) - its not something i have looked in to, too strenuously though (maybe i should).

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Re: Coutinho benefit for Firmino

Post by Mav3rick »

I think Vardy is a decent enough pick, him and Firmino are very similar stats wise and I think Vardy has basically done what would be expected of a mid-range striker.

It's a bit sideways as a Firmino owner though, the cost saving is only 0.2 so there's no particular budgetry advantage. I'd rather save a free transfer than move to Vardy at the moment.

Transferring down in price terms at least allows structural changes elsewhere, and Benteke is on very similar xG to both Vardy and Firmino for a decent amount of saving. Benteke hasn't passed the eye test so far though of course and after that there's just a whole host of insecure strikers, most with poor fixtures to boot, until we reach Wilson. I think that's dragging me down the 2 striker system, where Alonso effectively replaces my 7.x forward, or Jones/Christensen is replacing the 5.x forward.

I'd quite like to fit together a 442 system that allows Aguero and Alonso, but there are alternatives to Alonso to look at. Firmino makes it very easy to get Alonso, but of course Aguero looks like THE player to have, potentially after the Liverpool game. I do also still like Morata, although I think he's obviously too expensive as a 3rd forward and probably loses out to Kane and Aguero as first choice options in F1 and F2 for the moment.

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