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Jesus or Aguero?

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Jesus or Aguerro?

Jesus
27
23%
Aguerro
51
44%
Both of them
5
4%
Neither of them
32
28%
 
Total votes: 115

ThreeFiveThree
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Jesus or Aguero?

Post by ThreeFiveThree »

Uncertainty over game time - but City attacking cover a must. Who are you going with? I'm currently on Jesus and not sure how I feel about it :lol:

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Valeron
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Re: Jesus or Aguerro?

Post by Valeron »

I think one thing that has been overlooked in this debate is that Jesus played 3.5 matches in South America over the first 2 months of the season, that's a lot. I'm confident he's first choice forward and his minutes will go up from here. Think it's also worth noting that Brazil's friendlies next month are in France and London.

matt_toby
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Re: Jesus or Aguerro?

Post by matt_toby »

Voted Neither of them.

Getting Silva, Sterling and Sane.

Accepting one of my city midfielders may not play but at least that is circa 8m on the bench rather than 11m and my non city forward captain will play.

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owenclass
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Re: Jesus or Aguerro?

Post by owenclass »

It has to be Aguero

yttod1010
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Re: Jesus or Aguerro?

Post by yttod1010 »

owenclass wrote: 26 Oct 2017, 23:59 It has to be Aguero
Apart from the fact city look terrible when he plays

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Zimmerman
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Re: Jesus or Aguerro?

Post by Zimmerman »

Do they?

Can't say I'd agree with that.

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Ruth_NZ
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Re: Jesus or Aguerro?

Post by Ruth_NZ »

ThreeFiveThree wrote:...City attacking cover a must...

It isn't. And it doesn't have to be a striker anyway. Neither of the above for me unless one or other gets injured.

LAMPS27
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Re: Jesus or Aguerro?

Post by LAMPS27 »

Personally I have Jesus and he's been there since day 1 which makes me reluctant to swap him.

The recent game where he came on for a point (as my captain) was annoying however, a few weeks before I captained him when everyone else went Kane/Lukaku and he shot me up in ranking. I think moments like this will keep happening throughout the season especially when the fixtures build up around Xmas.

This team is very slick going forward and I think it's hard to justify not having at least 1 or them. Unfortunately rotating is going to happen I will hold unless a clear trend occurs whereby either/or is rested for certain games then make the adjustment.

If I had neither now, Aguero looks the more explosive but he's £1.1m more which makes me feel the value is with Jesus.

This is the City next run of games;

WBA (A) ARS (H) - LEI (A) HUD (A) SOU (H) WHU (H)

Not much to be worried about there. Jesus owners stick with Jesus, Aguero owners stick with Aguero if you have neither for me, Jesus is the better vfm.

ThreeFiveThree
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Re: Jesus or Aguerro?

Post by ThreeFiveThree »

With the news that Kane is out I am now most likely going with both and hoping for a Pep miracle

OIEIAO
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Re: Jesus or Aguerro?

Post by OIEIAO »

Very tricky. It appears they are unlikely to play together now: The only recent game where it happened appeared to be the league cup, and people have said they look better with just one up front. Would this be a fair conclusion?

I had Jesus on my wildcard this week as a one week punt.... but kept funds to go back to Kane next week. I'm therefore likely to have neither going forwards.

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Kuchi
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Re: Jesus or Aguerro?

Post by Kuchi »

Right now I feel like double mids are best.

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Zimmerman
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Re: Jesus or Aguerro?

Post by Zimmerman »

OIEIAO wrote: 28 Oct 2017, 19:44 Very tricky. It appears they are unlikely to play together now: The only recent game where it happened appeared to be the league cup, and people have said they look better with just one up front. Would this be a fair conclusion?

I had Jesus on my wildcard this week as a one week punt.... but kept funds to go back to Kane next week. I'm therefore likely to have neither going forwards.


No I don't think so.

It was possibly more to do with their runs of games (injuries forcing one to play more than the other)... hes been nursing them both back to fitness since (not so much nursing them 'back', but looking after them). Not forgetting internationals thrown in too.

Brighton both
Everton both
Bournemouth Jesus
Liverpool both
Feyenoord both
Watford both
West Brom (CC) Jesus
Palace Aguero
Shakhtar both
Chelsea Jesus (aguero injured)
Stoke Jesus (aguero bench)
Napoli Jesus (aguero bench)
Burnley Aguero
Wolves (CC) both (Aguero played 120 mins)
West Brom Jesus

cesc408
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Re: Jesus or Aguerro?

Post by cesc408 »

Jesus very frustrating

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baganboy
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Re: Jesus or Aguerro?

Post by baganboy »

I can give a very technical answer from a footballing point of view. I am not an expert, but a fan of football tactics in general, so do take this with a pinch of salt.

3-5-2 is a formation Pep likes to utilize reasonably frequently, though it seems that 4-3-3 is his favourite.

In a 4-3-3, the wing backs cut in into defensive midfield (at least one of them certainly does) playing as inverted wing backs, the width is provided by the wide forwards, and overloads are created both in the wings and in the middle due to this. One central forward.
City is ideally suited for this - because they have excellent wide forwards, Sterling, Sane, Bernardo; as well as very good hybrid wing-back / DM types. Delph, Danilo are both naturals at it, and as we have seen, Walker can do the job well too. This formation has only one central forward.

In a 3-5-2, the wing backs are sensational athletes who are crossers and defenders who stay at the flank and provide all the width. The two forwards are central, one (Aguero) a bit more deep lying than the other (Jesus). No natural wide forwards. Please note, in both formations, the midfield 3 do the same job. Fernandinho / Gundogan the holder, KDB the deep lying playmaker, and David Silva more box-to-box / Roaming Playmaker kinds.
City was perfectly suited for this too, as Walker and Mendy are excellent athletes who play the WB role to perfection. But Mendy got injured, and Delph can do the inverted WB job well, but not the Complete Wing Back (as they say in Football Manager)

And Mendy got injured, so City lacks the wherewithal to play 3-5-2 now. maybe Sane, but he is really defensively naive. City played 3-5-2 in the Carabao cup against Wolves, and correct me if I am wrong, Zinchenko played left wing back, not Delph.

Therefore 4-3-3, and one striker. It is not a permanent thing though. And that is the reason he hired the three wing backs he did.

The luddite English press has made an art form of making Guardiola as some kind of a madman who rotates because it is some kind of fun and games for him. That is not at all true IMHO - Guardiola has two gameplans, and he uses them interchangeably for the kind of teams he faces.

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ALAN1289
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Re: Jesus or Aguerro?

Post by ALAN1289 »

neither if there getting rotated so much

OIEIAO
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Re: Jesus or Aguerro?

Post by OIEIAO »

Zimmerman wrote: 28 Oct 2017, 20:17
OIEIAO wrote: 28 Oct 2017, 19:44 Very tricky. It appears they are unlikely to play together now: The only recent game where it happened appeared to be the league cup, and people have said they look better with just one up front. Would this be a fair conclusion?

I had Jesus on my wildcard this week as a one week punt.... but kept funds to go back to Kane next week. I'm therefore likely to have neither going forwards.


No I don't think so.

It was possibly more to do with their runs of games (injuries forcing one to play more than the other)... hes been nursing them both back to fitness since (not so much nursing them 'back', but looking after them). Not forgetting internationals thrown in too.

Brighton both
Everton both
Bournemouth Jesus
Liverpool both
Feyenoord both
Watford both
West Brom (CC) Jesus
Palace Aguero (Jesus bench, unused)
Shakhtar both
Chelsea Jesus (aguero injured)
Stoke Jesus (aguero bench)
Napoli Jesus (aguero bench)
Burnley Aguero (Jesus bench and on for Aguero last 15 mins)
Wolves (CC) both (Aguero played 120 mins)
West Brom Jesus (Aguero bench, unused)
I appreciate you summarising that but I'm not sure that disproves my suggestion - they've only played together in 2 of the last 9 and none of the last 6 in the PL, not even a single minute on the pitch together - not withstanding the Aguero injury recovery time.In the quote above I filled in a few of the other times one was on the bench recently and therefore available.
You could also say the league cup was a less competitive occasion to experiment - and not an especially successful one given they didn't score in 2 hours.

Baganboy's helpful analysis explains it better than I could. If he thinks he doesn't have the personnel right now for 3-5-2 he may be largely sticking to 4-3-3 and that means only one plays.

Mike1989
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Re: Jesus or Aguerro?

Post by Mike1989 »

Last week Aguero got the start (and Jesus got nominal minutes), this week Jesus got the start (and Aguero didn't play). How do you predict which player gets the start?

I think you are at the mercy of Pep because if they are playing a 4-3-3, it is likely only one of them is going to start and you could get burned. At one point I felt you could won both of them, but now it is difficult to predict which player is going to start, and as such it makes it difficult to justify owning either of them - though admittedly I still have Jesus in my team at the time of this post.

There are "safer" options in the same price range with guaranteed minutes, but whether they have as much upside as Aguero and Jesus is debatable. For example Lukaku has played 90 minutes in every game but is only 3 points ahead of Aguero and he's missed three games and only played 24 minutes on week 3. Jesus is the fifth highest scoring striker and has not played one game, played 14 minutes last week, been subbed around the hour or less mark four times, and only has one game with ninety minutes.

For me, it is difficult to ignore them, but when healthy I would rather own Kane over Aguero and probably Lukaku as well purely because they are more likely to play 90 minutes every game whereas Aguero could get subbed early and/or rested. Likewise I would probably rather own Morata than Jesus because he's more likely to play more minutes and has less risk of being rested. With that said, I couldn't criticise anyone that owns one or both of City's strikers because even with these rotational issues they are top five points producers in the striker category.

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owenclass
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Do you think picking both Aguero and Jesus in our teams is a good idea

Post by owenclass »

I just hate it when you put Aguero in your team and then you hear that he is not playing from the start. So do you think picking both Aguero and Jesus for the next two games and for the long term is the way to go as at least you can guarantee that one them will start and also Lacazette and Morata have tough fixtures coming up and Lukaku has stopped scoring

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Joshhua
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Re: Do you think picking both Aguero and Jesus in our teams is a good idea

Post by Joshhua »

Hi owen,
you might want Lukaku as soon as GW12 as he will be clear captain choice and he will start scoring again once the fixtures ease, or better said, when Mourinho reverts to the more attacking approach. There are rumors Pogba could be back soon, which can only boost Lukaku`s potential.

Having such expensive players like Aguero and Jesus are only going to help your team if you will captain them, so how will you know which one to captain? Have a feeling even Pep doesn`t know who will start two hours before the game. :) Just kidding, he is a tactical super-mind and looks which combination of players will give him the biggest chance to win the next game. Add in the mix minutes he has to manage to keep everybody happy and you got yourself almost unsolvable riddle for us mere mortals.
Lukaku (and Kane if fit) for GW12 and GW13 , Kane and Morata from GW14 until GW2x, would give you very good captain options every week.

Another point is do you want Kane alongside them? If you do, then it is too much money upfront as you can`t captain them all every week.

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Ruth_NZ
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Re: Jesus or Aguerro?

Post by Ruth_NZ »

baganboy wrote:Therefore 4-3-3, and one striker. It is not a permanent thing though. And that is the reason he hired the three wing backs he did.

The luddite English press has made an art form of making Guardiola as some kind of a madman who rotates because it is some kind of fun and games for him. That is not at all true IMHO - Guardiola has two gameplans, and he uses them interchangeably for the kind of teams he faces.

Yeah, 4-3-3 is clearly the default while Mendy is out. It was his preferred system at Barcelona too (and at Bayern 4-1-4-1 which is very similar).

Pep's rotation is no invention, though. He believes in it and it is part of his philosophy. I have posted plenty of evidence (and quotes from Guardiola himself) about this previously but this is from August this year:

"Last year I rotated a lot the team, this year will be the same, and after that it is up to them (the players) and they must accept this, if not it is not my problem. They will all play…"

There are those that wish to underplay this because it doesn't suit them. Good luck to them. I prefer to confront the inconvenient truth rather than fudging it. :wink:

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Re: Jesus or Aguerro?

Post by Gambit »

ALAN1289 wrote: 28 Oct 2017, 22:20 neither if there getting rotated so much
this.

And when you have Kane, Lukaku, Morata, who are all absolutely nailed, completely central to their teams, and can be trusted with the C, I don't see why it's worth risking a City striker.

Sterling and/or Sane are the two best City picks, they are cheap enough to live with the rotation and you probably wouldn't often captain them anyway (if you had two from Lukaku, Kane, Morata). And both can be explosive from the bench.

Only way I would now bring in Jesus or Aguero is if one of them was ruled out for a month or two

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Weedie
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Re: Jesus or Aguerro?

Post by Weedie »

I've got Aguero but will be looking to get rid.

I can't justify having that much money on a player whose not a nailed on starter and when they do start likely get taken off after 60 minutes.

Sure we will get a decent haul from them when they do play but it's just not worth it when you can have Lukaku/Morata who will play and are getting points - Morata should have scored at least 1 yesterday. Lukaku is getting assists when he's not in amongst the goals.

City cover should consist of Silva/kdb/Sterling/Sane/Oatamendi

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Re: Jesus or Aguerro?

Post by Owsler »

Jesus wasn't great yesterday though, right? Unless Aguero is going to be used outside of the PL, he's surely starting next week? Arsenal might not seem a great fixture, but I wasn't holding Kola because of cleansheet potential.

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Re: Jesus or Aguerro?

Post by baganboy »

Ruth_NZ wrote: 29 Oct 2017, 09:19 "Last year I rotated a lot the team, this year will be the same, and after that it is up to them (the players) and they must accept this, if not it is not my problem. They will all play…"
There are those that wish to underplay this because it doesn't suit them. Good luck to them. I prefer to confront the inconvenient truth rather than fudging it. :wink:
What I hear from most commentators here (and I do not go to too many other FPL sites) is that they feel that notwithstanding the rotation, the MCY players will score enough in their limited gametime to justify the spending on them. And that is a decent conjecture to make, considering City scores / creates a lot.

Guardiola would rotate in the forward slots, because he can. (And not because the luddite British press thinks Guardiola does not knwo what his first team is). If he plays with a single striker, there is no noticeable drop in quality in changing from Jesus to Aguero. While it is for nearly every other PL team (Kane-Llorente; Morata-Batshuyi; Lukaku - nobody; Firmino- Sturridge)- the closest parallel being Arsenal, where too there will be some rotation, but not as much.
There would not be rotation in the central defensive positions, because Mangala/Adarabioyo is a major drop in quality. When Kompany joins in, there will be some rotation here too.

PS: I guess Foden will get some gametime in the latter half of the season, getting gametime away from Sane, Sterling and Bernardo. Jesus can pay left wing too.

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Ruth_NZ
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Re: Jesus or Aguerro?

Post by Ruth_NZ »

baganboy wrote:What I hear from most commentators here (and I do not go to too many other FPL sites) is that they feel that notwithstanding the rotation, the MCY players will score enough in their limited gametime to justify the spending on them. And that is a decent conjecture to make, considering City scores / creates a lot.

Guardiola would rotate in the forward slots, because he can. (And not because the Luddite British press thinks Guardiola does not know what his first team is).

Sterling, yes. He can justify value even with rotation. Sané too, most likely, though better at 8.3m than 8.7m. I tried to transfer him in last night but missed the price rise because the clocks had changed. :( He might be my transfer in this week but I'll wait on Wednesday's events now. Silva, possibly, but my view is that his ever-present status won't last much longer before rotation kicks in for him too.

KDB, Jesus, Aguero not. They are too expensive to justify value without captaincy. And they can't be captained. 33% of the top 10k captained Jesus for a 1-pointer in GW9. 27% of them captained Aguero yesterday for a non-appearance (and they can count themselves lucky he didn't get a cameo). Surely the penny will drop now. :? It bewilders me that it didn't before but you will still get City "climate-change deniers" who insist that there's nothing to see here.

As for 'not knowing his best team', I think that is a fundamental misconception. Teams like City (especially) don't have a 'best team' any more, not in the sense of an automatic first-choice XI. They have expensively assembled squads and their managers - especially Guardiola - will use them. Most have "untouchables" (Mourinho's term) but I'm not sure City even have that. Ederson probably, Fernandinho maybe. Can't see anyone else, not even KDB.

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Zimmerman
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Re: Jesus or Aguerro?

Post by Zimmerman »

What does this mean?

and after that it is up to them (the players) and they must accept this

I interpret it to be that it's not rotation for rotation sake. If they play well or do what is asked, they stay in the side.

de Bruyne and Silva are testament to this. Jesus has started 13/15 games. The defence (where granted there are very limited options) is picking itself every game.
Aguero has started 9/12 he's been fit for (one of three he missed being in the Caribou Cup).

Baganboy probably hits it on the head in that it's not just random rotation (part opposition/desired approach from Pep, part form, part player preservation).

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Zimmerman
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Re: Jesus or Aguerro?

Post by Zimmerman »

Jesus 13/15
Aguero 9/12 (one CC missed)
Silva 13/15 (both CC missed)
de Bruyne 13/15 (both CC)
Sane 9/15 (came on as sub in the other 5)
Sterling 9/15 (came on as sub in the other 6)

its almost 4 in to 3 slots (assuming Silva, de Bruyne and Fernandinho are nailed on picks). Because of Agueros injury it's not clear if there might have been more changes or not.

But I'm not sure at the moment there is even a massive risk of rotation based on what we have seen so far (the two most subject to rotation are obviously cheaper options).

Should be noted that even Messi and Iniesta were rested/changed during Peps time.

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Pulpy
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Re: Jesus or Aguerro?

Post by Pulpy »

Jesus has been rested/rotated in cup games though. It could easily be the opposite way round going forwards. I'll be transferring Jesus out as I don't want to captain him so I agree with RNZ here. Jesus is also a bit mouthy with referees so picks up yellows. He is always one of the lowest odds City players to be booked, unusual for a forward.

If/when I have Aguero in my team for me that is different. Aguero does not get played out wide. Aguero has penalties. Aguero has a strong history of goal scoring in the Premier League.

I would consider captaining Aguero on a risk v reward basis. He has more chance of a no show or one pointer than say Kane, Lukaku or Morata. He is not as good a captain as Kane is this season in my opinion. However Lukaku and Morata probably do not have penalties and play for a team with a lower XG than Aguero does. So while there is more risk with Aguero, there is potentially more reward too.

Do we want to gamble on captaincy? Well that is a risk v reward decision we all must make, and ultimately is down to each individual to decide on.

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Zimmerman
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Re: Jesus or Aguerro?

Post by Zimmerman »

Jesus 8 goals 1 assist from 13 starts
Aguero 8 goals 3 assists from 9 starts


For comparison, the much safer Morata has only started 10 games (7 goals and 3 assists).

Lukaku has started 13 (10 goals / 3 assists).

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Re: Jesus or Aguerro?

Post by Football Hero »

Aguerro is the best pick.

Aguerro has the most points.

Aguerro is the leader of the poll.

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