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4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

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Canikickit
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4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by Canikickit »

Anyone looked into this?

Playing a premium with 2 pairs of 4.5 rotating.

E.g Cedric 5.0, Mee + Tomkins 9mil, Yedlin + Naughton 9mil.

It frees up a tonne of funds and allows for a 3 man defence to have strong fixtures week in week out.

Only problem is finding 4 4.5 players that are guaranteed game time.
Maybe not the best idea to start the season but one to look at after the first wildcard.

23mil spent on defence may seem light but allows strength in other areas.

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Mav3rick
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Re: 4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by Mav3rick »

You don't want to go too cheap though. There will surely be cause to spend a little more in defence than that, however you could certainly start the season with a lineup like that as it would be survivable to the first wildcard.

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ishnid
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Re: 4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by ishnid »

Interesting idea (which I've considered myself). I wouldn't describe Cedric as "premium" though.

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Ruth_NZ
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Re: 4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by Ruth_NZ »

Mav3rick wrote:You don't want to go too cheap though. There will surely be cause to spend a little more in defence than that, however you could certainly start the season with a lineup like that as it would be survivable to the first wildcard.
I'm not so sure. If I were playing 3-4-3 I'd almost certainly use a 3/5 rotation with no defender above 5.0m, maybe 23.0 or 23.5m spend. You can make a good, solid rotation that way. The problem for me is that I don't like many attackers below 8.0m really. That's why 4-3-3 works best for me and that means you can go much bigger in defence.

I think there is validity in both. What I don't like is the mid-ground where people consider 5.5m defenders as premiums. With the possible exception of Trippier (and I have my doubts about him too initially) I don't think they are. :?

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Hazardous
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Re: 4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by Hazardous »

Ruth_NZ wrote:
Mav3rick wrote:You don't want to go too cheap though. There will surely be cause to spend a little more in defence than that, however you could certainly start the season with a lineup like that as it would be survivable to the first wildcard.
I'm not so sure. If I were playing 3-4-3 I'd almost certainly use a 3/5 rotation with no defender above 5.0m, maybe 23.0 or 23.5m spend. You can make a good, solid rotation that way. The problem for me is that I don't like many attackers below 8.0m really. That's why 4-3-3 works best for me and that means you can go much bigger in defence.

I think there is validity in both. What I don't like is the mid-ground where people consider 5.5m defenders as premiums. With the possible exception of Trippier (and I have my doubts about him too initially) I don't think they are. :?
How can you say you don't like the midfielders below 8.0, I find them extremely appealing considering their opening fixtures. I have the likes of Willian, Zaha and Phillips all in my team. I believe willian can easily return in FPL in the first few weeks with Hazard out. Zaha and Phillips both have great home fixtures and can see both of them returning as well. I seem to think that most midfielders above 8.0 aren't very appealing at all considering there insane prices and cheaper alternatives. What does your midfield even look like?

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Sutter Kane
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Re: 4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by Sutter Kane »

I think Ruth was talking about the forwards/attackers, not mids.

At least if you go cheap on defence, you have the financial ammunition and flexibility to basically get whoever you want when they become a bandwagon. The downside is the CSs are much less predictable for cheaper defenders and at 4.5mn, attacking returns are near zero.

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Re: 4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by Mav3rick »

Ruth_NZ wrote:
Mav3rick wrote:You don't want to go too cheap though. There will surely be cause to spend a little more in defence than that, however you could certainly start the season with a lineup like that as it would be survivable to the first wildcard.
I'm not so sure. If I were playing 3-4-3 I'd almost certainly use a 3/5 rotation with no defender above 5.0m, maybe 23.0 or 23.5m spend. You can make a good, solid rotation that way. The problem for me is that I don't like many attackers below 8.0m really. That's why 4-3-3 works best for me and that means you can go much bigger in defence.

I think there is validity in both. What I don't like is the mid-ground where people consider 5.5m defenders as premiums. With the possible exception of Trippier (and I have my doubts about him too initially) I don't think they are. :?
In a back three, trippier and Cedric + some cheapies (or possibly 4 cheapies) would be fine with me so we're basically in agreement there (if i take your possible exceptions) as that's what I meant by 'spending a little more' in my reply to the OP.

In a back four, as I said in the STC thread, it's basically for me about keeping some rotation but obviously upgrading one of those cheapies to a better defender that you can use week in week out. 5.5 is the first slot that is possible for me, so I start there and build out, upgrading as I see the best points potential.

Now, I'm not against a Valencia, Alonso or Milner in the four, but the team always looks better balanced to me with a cheaper player (so 5.5) so long as they are along the same value arc as the more expensive defenders.

Joccki's 433 idea is basically the same as mine but with Kane sacrificed to upgrade one defender toward that 6+ level and I'm happy to consider that and other sacrifices to get there.

Pre-season form from Arsenal could sway me, or even Azpi playing right wing. And of course if I can't find a second 5.5 that fits the bill then I'll have to change tactic.

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Re: 4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by Ruth_NZ »

Hazardous wrote:How can you say you don't like the midfielders below 8.0, I find them extremely appealing considering their opening fixtures? I have the likes of Willian, Zaha and Phillips all in my team. What does your midfield even look like?
Sutter Kane wrote:I think Ruth was talking about the forwards/attackers, not mids.
I can say I don't like them because I don't like them. :shock: Willian is an exception but probably only for 3 weeks and after that he'll likely need replacing. Palace's early fixtures look awkward to me in the main and I'm reluctant to get involved with them under a new manager until a pattern has emerged. If I did take a Palace attacker it would be Benteke anyhow. WBA attackers are a contradiction in terms and I'd much prefer Chadli to Phillips in any case.

Sutter is wrong, I did mean midfielders too and I have reservations about all of them under 8.0m. After the first wildcard it may well be different because some patterns will have started to emerge by then. :|

I won't know what my midfield looks like for another 3 weeks. But if today was deadline day it would probably be KDB, Eriksen, Willian, Carroll, Delph.

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Re: 4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by Ruth_NZ »

Mav3rick wrote:Pre-season form from Arsenal could sway me, or even Azpi playing right wing. And of course if I can't find a second 5.5 that fits the bill then I'll have to change tactic.
Are you even sure that Trippier fits the bill, though? I can see as well as anyone else that he represents good value based on last season's evidence. But I do think people are discounting the Wembley effect, Spurs are unlikely to keep as many clean sheets there as they did at White Hart Lane and when they play their first home game in GW2 they will be facing a team that has probably played more games on that pitch than they have. Even in this calendar year actually. If they didn't have Burnley at Wembley in GW3 (who the big pitch will suit even less than it does Spurs) I'd seriously consider starting without any Spurs players whatsoever.

I don't know. I expect I'll have Tripper at some stage but I'm not sure I want to start with him. If he does start well and gets price gains I'm just as happy to get Alderweireld later on, I think he's probably worth 0.5m more than Trippier in any case. Anyway, I'd be interested in your views.

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Re: 4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by thebillfella »

Lindelof should "fit the bill".

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Re: 4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by blahblah »

Ruth_NZ wrote: Are you even sure that Trippier fits the bill, though? I can see as well as anyone else that he represents good value based on last season's evidence. But I do think people are discounting the Wembley effect, Spurs are unlikely to keep as many clean sheets there as they did at White Hart Lane and when they play their first home game in GW2 they will be facing a team that has probably played more games on that pitch than they have. Even in this calendar year actually. If they didn't have Burnley at Wembley in GW3 (who the big pitch will suit even less than it does Spurs) I'd seriously consider starting without any Spurs players whatsoever.

I don't know. I expect I'll have Tripper at some stage but I'm not sure I want to start with him. If he does start well and gets price gains I'm just as happy to get Alderweireld later on, I think he's probably worth 0.5m more than Trippier in any case. Anyway, I'd be interested in your views.
Exactly my trouble with Spurs: and Burnley players (amongst a fair few others) will have their only chance to play at Wembley and up their game...

But then I am a tad glass half empty rather than full, and have reservations about the non CL sides from last season replicating those performances this time: so Milner, who seems to be in every Squad that gets posted doesn't overly appeal, either.

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Re: 4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by Mav3rick »

Ruth_NZ wrote:
Are you even sure that Trippier fits the bill, though? I can see as well as anyone else that he represents good value based on last season's evidence. But I do think people are discounting the Wembley effect, Spurs are unlikely to keep as many clean sheets there as they did at White Hart Lane and when they play their first home game in GW2 they will be facing a team that has probably played more games on that pitch than they have.
Well there are doubts about everyone in that sense. Are you sure about any of your picks if you take every possible doubt into account. I'm not sure about 6m for Arsenals opening fixtures, I'm not sure that Valencia offers enough over Lindelhof to make up the 1.0 in attacking returns, especially in a short run to the first wildcard.

Equally, I'm not sure enough to say I don't want any spurs players when they have decent games and were probably, for me, the best team by the end of last season.

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Ruth_NZ
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Re: 4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by Ruth_NZ »

Yeah, Mav3rick. The truth is I find GW1 the most difficult of the season and have reservations about almost every player I am considering. :roll:

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Sutter Kane
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Re: 4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by Sutter Kane »

Ruth_NZ wrote:

Sutter is wrong, I did mean midfielders too and I have reservations about all of them under 8.0m. After the first wildcard it may well be different because some patterns will have started to emerge by then. :|
I stand well and truly corrected... :lol:

However, if you have reservations about virtually every player GW1, it makes the above comment a little moot!

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gallus
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Re: 4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by gallus »

If you insist on rotation then I would suggest a 5.5, 5.0, 4.5, 4.5, 4.0 setup for a 3-4-3. Which is no that bad actually. But I still think the premium defenders are much better picks than midfielders of the same price.

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Ruth_NZ
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Re: 4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by Ruth_NZ »

Sutter Kane wrote:
Ruth_NZ wrote:

Sutter is wrong, I did mean midfielders too and I have reservations about all of them under 8.0m. After the first wildcard it may well be different because some patterns will have started to emerge by then. :|
I stand well and truly corrected... :lol:

However, if you have reservations about virtually every player GW1, it makes the above comment a little moot!
True. But I have bigger reservations about the sub 8.0 attackers. :wink: Especially over short periods (i.e. the first 4-6 weeks).

Trouble is that I do eventually have to select 15 players. :lol:

But in all candour, I think looking at inconvenient truths (=reservations) is important right now. 6 weeks into the season we will have a much clearer picture and all I really want is to be in the top 400k or so at that stage. After that I am confident about my ability to climb upwards. So I'd rather start with a team that is maybe a bit pedestrian but doesn't have too many eggs in one basket. Maybe it would be better to name those I have no reservations about. And that's Lukaku, Valencia and to a lesser degree KDB. Oh, and Willian apart from the fact that I know it will be a transfer waiting to happen. But I might wildcard by the time that transfer needs making.

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Sutter Kane
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Re: 4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by Sutter Kane »

Ruth_NZ wrote: all I really want is to be in the top 400k or so at that stage.
I'd take that right now. Start of the season is such a lottery and with the vast array of attacking options available right now, likely to be even more of a crapshoot.

It's relatively straightforward to maintain or slightly improve rankings from midseason onwards, it's the first third that can be devastating if you're unlucky.

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gallus
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Re: 4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by gallus »

Sutter Kane wrote:
Ruth_NZ wrote: all I really want is to be in the top 400k or so at that stage.
I'd take that right now. Start of the season is such a lottery and with the vast array of attacking options available right now, likely to be even more of a crapshoot.

It's relatively straightforward to maintain or slightly improve rankings from midseason onwards, it's the first third that can be devastating if you're unlucky.
If the goal is not to fall behind, would it make sense to just pick a team with high ownership so that no single player can really hurt you?

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Re: 4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by Ruth_NZ »

gallus wrote:
Sutter Kane wrote:
Ruth_NZ wrote: all I really want is to be in the top 400k or so at that stage.
I'd take that right now. Start of the season is such a lottery and with the vast array of attacking options available right now, likely to be even more of a crapshoot.

It's relatively straightforward to maintain or slightly improve rankings from midseason onwards, it's the first third that can be devastating if you're unlucky.
If the goal is not to fall behind, would it make sense to just pick a team with high ownership so that no single player can really hurt you?
Probably. But that's a step too far for me really. :wink:

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gallus
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Re: 4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by gallus »

Ruth_NZ wrote:
gallus wrote:
Sutter Kane wrote:
Ruth_NZ wrote: all I really want is to be in the top 400k or so at that stage.
I'd take that right now. Start of the season is such a lottery and with the vast array of attacking options available right now, likely to be even more of a crapshoot.

It's relatively straightforward to maintain or slightly improve rankings from midseason onwards, it's the first third that can be devastating if you're unlucky.
If the goal is not to fall behind, would it make sense to just pick a team with high ownership so that no single player can really hurt you?
Probably. But that's a step too far for me really. :wink:
I've tried selecting such a team, and it looks really bad. But somehow I suspect it will outscore the team I end up selecting. :lol:

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Re: 4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by Ironfist »

Sutter Kane wrote:
Ruth_NZ wrote: all I really want is to be in the top 400k or so at that stage.
I'd take that right now. Start of the season is such a lottery and with the vast array of attacking options available right now, likely to be even more of a crapshoot.

It's relatively straightforward to maintain or slightly improve rankings from midseason onwards, it's the first third that can be devastating if you're unlucky.
For me it's almost the exact opposite. My super hero skill :roll: is to do my best work at the start of the season. Last season, just like previous ones (more or less) I made it to rank of ~3000-ish in 4 GWs before dropping to around 100k and lingering there.

As for cheap(-er) defenders rotating... I think it's still a valid system despite the obvious pricing change... scare mongering so active here. IMHO no tactic should be over embraced. The 532 suggestions are over the top, especially at the start of the season when CSs aren't so prevalent. Balance in everything is the name of the game early on, 15 playing names somewhat akeen *shock* to the autopick teams. Thus, perhaps it's best to plan for a moderate 442 formation which allows to go 343 or 352 or if disaster strikes a 451 setting.
ATM my own team is set with 2×5.5, 1×5.0, 1×4.5 and 1×4.0, which is pretty mundane. The 433 teams won't beat that, if at all by more than a marginal score.

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Re: 4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by Sutter Kane »

gallus wrote:
Sutter Kane wrote:
Ruth_NZ wrote: all I really want is to be in the top 400k or so at that stage.
I'd take that right now. Start of the season is such a lottery and with the vast array of attacking options available right now, likely to be even more of a crapshoot.

It's relatively straightforward to maintain or slightly improve rankings from midseason onwards, it's the first third that can be devastating if you're unlucky.
If the goal is not to fall behind, would it make sense to just pick a team with high ownership so that no single player can really hurt you?
Not possible this season. Too many players can hurt. I think the trap, contrary to what a few posters have said, would be to hop on / hop off quality players regularly. Obviously form is important but there's plenty of heavyweights who can brace at many times sporadically. Which is the lure of the 5-2-3 strategies, where you focus on transfers of defenders rather than the front 5 (mid 2 att 3). In fact I'd have thought that one could employ a 5 at the back without them all being heavyweights if you have enough transfers to tweak for fixtures. (#checks out that now)

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Re: 4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by Sutter Kane »

Sutter Kane wrote:(#checks out that now)
No.

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Re: 4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by Ironfist »

Sutter Kane wrote:
Sutter Kane wrote:(#checks out that now)
No.
:lol: Science at the speed of light! :mrgreen:

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Re: 4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by OIEIAO »

I made a note to try out starting off this season with a premium and 4 x 4.5m, and not overspend in defence. I'd have a Chelsea defender as my premium option though, not Cedric!

But, as I noted at the start of the defensive gems thread, I just don't think the decent options are there in that price bracket. You are fishing around Burnley and Watford and the promoted teams (maybe or or two more) and beyond that there's selection risks all over the place. Attacking returns, forget it!

If options emerge I'd be happy to go back to rotation but at the moment I actually have 4 defenders at 5.0 or more (Alonso, Trippier, Mawson, Cedric) - all carry the possibility of attacking returns as well as seeming to be nailed.

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Re: 4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by Lucky »

thebillfella wrote: 21 Jul 2017, 09:53 Lindelof should "fit the bill".
My thought over the last two weeks. However, switched on the TV ManU vs Madrid yesterday. He failed to impress me + conceeded penalty ... not even sure he will start. Despite good fixtures, ManU might not have many CS at the start of the season. I will look elsewhere.

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Re: 4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by Joccki_10 »

Keep an eye out for Hegazi.

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Re: 4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by TheBigLewandowski »

Joccki_10 wrote: 27 Jul 2017, 15:34 Keep an eye out for Hegazi.
Central defender? Whose position would he take in their backline? McAuley?

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Re: 4 x 4.5 Defenders rotating.

Post by Joccki_10 »

TheBigLewandowski wrote:
Joccki_10 wrote: 27 Jul 2017, 15:34 Keep an eye out for Hegazi.
Central defender? Whose position would he take in their backline? McAuley?
Left back. Having a pretty good pre-season so far for what I know. McAuley is still injured.

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