5.5+ Defenders
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- Grumpy Old Man
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5.5+ Defenders
Making this topic as plenty of talk that wingbacks may be worth having over say a 6.0 or 6.5 midfielder, possibly making a 4 defence formation quite popular this season.
So who are we thinking is deffo worth considering or is everybody starting with cheaper 4.5/5.0 defences? Plenty of choice for premiums...
Walker was outstanding last season, and has just moved to City. Possibly will be more of a RB this season then a RWB so whether he will be as effective in the final 3rd well who knows, quite possibly if Pep plays with playmaking midfielders who want to cut inside all the time, giving him freedom on the wing. 6.5 though is steep for a non goalscoring defender.
Milner at 6.5 is interesting. We all know he is on pens, some corners and likes to get crosses in, but pool were painful at times defensively last season, especially if you owned 1 of there defenders. 7 goals last season though isn't to be ignored lightly.
Chelsea defenders don't seem to be mentioned much this season. There WB's like Alonso (7.0) were key last season, Cahill (6.5) was decent from corners and points were easy to come by and cleansheets were reliable. Same again ?
UTD were pretty defensively sound at times last season and the opening fixtures look to be in their favour. Lindelof (5.5) seems to be the cheapest defender should he be selected alongside Bailly (6.0). LB still seems a mystery for now. Valencia (6.5) may be the best for returns but is he worth the price over others?
Like Chelsea Spurs had another decent defensive record last season, and there full backs spent more time attacking then defending. Trippier (5.5) looks to have the RB slot should nobody else sign.
Ain't going to bother mentioning others as will be here all evening.
So who are we thinking is deffo worth considering or is everybody starting with cheaper 4.5/5.0 defences? Plenty of choice for premiums...
Walker was outstanding last season, and has just moved to City. Possibly will be more of a RB this season then a RWB so whether he will be as effective in the final 3rd well who knows, quite possibly if Pep plays with playmaking midfielders who want to cut inside all the time, giving him freedom on the wing. 6.5 though is steep for a non goalscoring defender.
Milner at 6.5 is interesting. We all know he is on pens, some corners and likes to get crosses in, but pool were painful at times defensively last season, especially if you owned 1 of there defenders. 7 goals last season though isn't to be ignored lightly.
Chelsea defenders don't seem to be mentioned much this season. There WB's like Alonso (7.0) were key last season, Cahill (6.5) was decent from corners and points were easy to come by and cleansheets were reliable. Same again ?
UTD were pretty defensively sound at times last season and the opening fixtures look to be in their favour. Lindelof (5.5) seems to be the cheapest defender should he be selected alongside Bailly (6.0). LB still seems a mystery for now. Valencia (6.5) may be the best for returns but is he worth the price over others?
Like Chelsea Spurs had another decent defensive record last season, and there full backs spent more time attacking then defending. Trippier (5.5) looks to have the RB slot should nobody else sign.
Ain't going to bother mentioning others as will be here all evening.
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- Grumpy Old Man
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Re: 5.5+ Defenders
Yeah, Trippier is looking like a good option.
I still like Alonso at 7.0 if Chelsea play the same as last season.
I'm not sure on Milner, Liverpool got 8 penalties last season which is quite high, so he will probably get less goals this season. I think he's a reasonable shout though.
I still like Alonso at 7.0 if Chelsea play the same as last season.
I'm not sure on Milner, Liverpool got 8 penalties last season which is quite high, so he will probably get less goals this season. I think he's a reasonable shout though.
- Mav3rick
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Re: 5.5+ Defenders
Alonso + Trippier as D1 and D2 is pretty awesome looking defence on paper to start the year with. I think Alonso is worth it if he scores like he did last year, the question for me is more around his price and if and when other defenders can out value him (and defenders are really mostly about value for me).
Having said that though, he did only play 30 games last year (in the league) so he could actually play more minutes this season overall and possibly improve his tally which has to be factored in. An extra 1.5 on the cost of a 5.5 defender probably requires an additional 1ppg, which he may struggle to achieve on Trippier, but I think that might actually be possible over the others in that range if Chelsea can keep 15+ cleansheets. One player I did think he (Alonso) might struggle to out-value is Luke Shaw (5.0) if he can force his way back into that Utd team. Surely the Man Utd defenders will match Chelsea's clean sheet output too, which puts a lot of pressure on Alonso's attacking returns, although they are likely to be significant for a defender I'd think.
The concept of the midfielder vs the extra premium defender deserves it's own thread, but really if any of these wingback defenders turn out to be exceptionally good then they will probably be in most teams anyway regardless of formation, so it's really if 2 or 3 of them start looking great that the pressure to switch to a back 4/5 really takes hold.
Having said that though, he did only play 30 games last year (in the league) so he could actually play more minutes this season overall and possibly improve his tally which has to be factored in. An extra 1.5 on the cost of a 5.5 defender probably requires an additional 1ppg, which he may struggle to achieve on Trippier, but I think that might actually be possible over the others in that range if Chelsea can keep 15+ cleansheets. One player I did think he (Alonso) might struggle to out-value is Luke Shaw (5.0) if he can force his way back into that Utd team. Surely the Man Utd defenders will match Chelsea's clean sheet output too, which puts a lot of pressure on Alonso's attacking returns, although they are likely to be significant for a defender I'd think.
The concept of the midfielder vs the extra premium defender deserves it's own thread, but really if any of these wingback defenders turn out to be exceptionally good then they will probably be in most teams anyway regardless of formation, so it's really if 2 or 3 of them start looking great that the pressure to switch to a back 4/5 really takes hold.
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Re: 5.5+ Defenders
didn't chelseas sign Sandro?Football Hero wrote:Yeah, Trippier is looking like a good option.
I still like Alonso at 7.0 if Chelsea play the same as last season.
I'm not sure on Milner, Liverpool got 8 penalties last season which is quite high, so he will probably get less goals this season. I think he's a reasonable shout though.
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Re: RE: Re: 5.5+ Defenders
Nofred1266 wrote:didn't chelseas sign Sandro?Football Hero wrote:Yeah, Trippier is looking like a good option.
I still like Alonso at 7.0 if Chelsea play the same as last season.
I'm not sure on Milner, Liverpool got 8 penalties last season which is quite high, so he will probably get less goals this season. I think he's a reasonable shout though.
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Re: RE: Re: 5.5+ Defenders
or ok wonder were i heard that fromBilly Bongo wrote:Nofred1266 wrote:didn't chelseas sign Sandro?Football Hero wrote:Yeah, Trippier is looking like a good option.
I still like Alonso at 7.0 if Chelsea play the same as last season.
I'm not sure on Milner, Liverpool got 8 penalties last season which is quite high, so he will probably get less goals this season. I think he's a reasonable shout though.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: 5.5+ Defenders
They made a bidfred1266 wrote:or ok wonder were i heard that fromBilly Bongo wrote:Nofred1266 wrote:didn't chelseas sign Sandro?Football Hero wrote:Yeah, Trippier is looking like a good option.
I still like Alonso at 7.0 if Chelsea play the same as last season.
I'm not sure on Milner, Liverpool got 8 penalties last season which is quite high, so he will probably get less goals this season. I think he's a reasonable shout though.
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- dino1980
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Re: 5.5+ Defenders
I currently have Trippier and Bertrand in the D1 and D2 slots as my premium, play every week defenders. I don't expect Bertrand to be that popular a pick as they've got CRD's at 5.0 (Forster, Cedric, Yoshida). I love Saints opening fixtures and think the extra spend of .5 for Bertand is worth it over Cedric and Yoshida. I've not yet looked deep enough to see if there's a better value 5.5 out there (Lindelof maybe?) but Bertrand's mix of attacking threat and great opening fixtures mean he's in my team for now.
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Re: 5.5+ Defenders
I totally agree. Fixtures extremely attractive. I will watch them closely in pre-season ... might even consider two Saints defenders.dino1980 wrote:I currently have Trippier and Bertrand in the D1 and D2 slots as my premium, play every week defenders. I don't expect Bertrand to be that popular a pick as they've got CRD's at 5.0 (Forster, Cedric, Yoshida). I love Saints opening fixtures and think the extra spend of .5 for Bertand is worth it over Cedric and Yoshida. I've not yet looked deep enough to see if there's a better value 5.5 out there (Lindelof maybe?) but Bertrand's mix of attacking threat and great opening fixtures mean he's in my team for now.
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Re: 5.5+ Defenders
Does Bertrand add much (other than certainty) over Cedric? Was Cedric not a bit of a BP monster when cleansheets were on the cards?
Also, this on Twitter:
Also, this on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/8 ... 6734406656Jose also says Rojo, Young, Shaw and Zlatan won't be back until the end of the year.
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Re: 5.5+ Defenders
Zlatan? I thought they released him? He's not even in the game! I guess maybe he's still training with them, but if Mourinho is talking about him coming "back" then it seems to indicate he's still a United player?Mav3rick wrote:Also, this on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/8 ... 6734406656Jose also says Rojo, Young, Shaw and Zlatan won't be back until the end of the year.
If both Rojo and Shaw are long-term absentees, does this make Blind a very attractive pick from that United defence? From my memory of last season, whenever he played left-back he took all the left-sided corners. With (I'm assuming) no immediate competition for his place he could be a better initial pick than Lindelöf?
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Re: 5.5+ Defenders
There seems to be some disagreements in the twitter replies. For example someone wrote:
"He didn't say that. He said they'd be out for 'weeks or months'. He only said Zlatan would be out til December."
"Not at all what he said. Top journalism"
"He didn't say that. He said they'd be out for 'weeks or months'. He only said Zlatan would be out til December."
"Not at all what he said. Top journalism"
- dino1980
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Re: 5.5+ Defenders
Re: Shaw, odd that it states he'll be out to the end of the year. A story yesterday from The Guardian seems to suggest he'll miss the opening fixture(s) but return soon after.Mav3rick wrote:Does Bertrand add much (other than certainty) over Cedric? Was Cedric not a bit of a BP monster when cleansheets were on the cards?
Also, this on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/8 ... 6734406656Jose also says Rojo, Young, Shaw and Zlatan won't be back until the end of the year.
Re: Bertrand vs Cedric. The extra .5 is part security, part attacking threat. Cedric is also a card magnet (he got 11 BPS to Betrand's 9). Both played similar minutes last season (2520 vs 2508 in Cedric's favour) and Bertrand had superior numbers for final third touches, penalty area touches and SITB and takes some corners. Cedric has far better chance created and crossing numbers though.
If I knew that Cedric was nailed then I'd take him at 5.0 over Bertrand at 5.5, just.
- Amberarmy
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Re: 5.5+ Defenders
I currently have Alonso, Trippier, Bertrand and Kolasinac.
I expect Alonso and Trippier to play as wing back. I read somewhere that Kolasinac played as a wing back last season and with Wenger preferring this system at the end of last season, surely he's worth 6mil in an Arsenal team without CL.
What are people's thoughts on Kolasinac? Has anyone seen him play much?
I expect Alonso and Trippier to play as wing back. I read somewhere that Kolasinac played as a wing back last season and with Wenger preferring this system at the end of last season, surely he's worth 6mil in an Arsenal team without CL.
What are people's thoughts on Kolasinac? Has anyone seen him play much?
- gallus
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Re: 5.5+ Defenders
I currently have Milner, Alonso and Trippier in a 433, with Cedric in the D4 slot. The 4.5 options are poor this year, so my D5 is a 4.0 fodder.
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Re: 5.5+ Defenders
Similar back 5 (and structure) to Gallus, but with Lindelof rather than Milner for the time being.
We'll see how long my nerve holds.
We'll see how long my nerve holds.
- From4corners
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Re: 5.5+ Defenders
I have all four as well, but added Bellerín to it as well..gallus wrote:I currently have Milner, Alonso and Trippier in a 433, with Cedric in the D4 slot. The 4.5 options are poor this year, so my D5 is a 4.0 fodder.
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Re: 5.5+ Defenders
From that I take it your playing a back 5...From4corners wrote:I have all four as well, but added Bellerín to it as well..gallus wrote:I currently have Milner, Alonso and Trippier in a 433, with Cedric in the D4 slot. The 4.5 options are poor this year, so my D5 is a 4.0 fodder.
I tried this last year, 523 but switched to it midway through the 1st half of the season. Took hits to try it and it didn't work out with all the midfield talent on offer. If it is to be successful this season will be the decider.
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Re: 5.5+ Defenders
I'd agree with that. I'd think most 'normal' sides would have trippier and their favourite 5.0.
Alonso, Bellerin and Milner if they can all make 180+ could change opinions. Will they all though and conversely will there be no emerging midfield or striker talent? What about any cheaper 4.5-5.5 wingbacks hitting 140+ for potentially hardly any money at all? I'd like to see some preseason formations before deciding but I can't see myself starting with a back 5 at the moment.
However it does feel quite wise to me to have a slot open for one of those pricey wingbacks, I feel it quite likely that someone could get close to 190 this year especially if you can chop and change the occupant of the slot with fixtures.
Alonso, Bellerin and Milner if they can all make 180+ could change opinions. Will they all though and conversely will there be no emerging midfield or striker talent? What about any cheaper 4.5-5.5 wingbacks hitting 140+ for potentially hardly any money at all? I'd like to see some preseason formations before deciding but I can't see myself starting with a back 5 at the moment.
However it does feel quite wise to me to have a slot open for one of those pricey wingbacks, I feel it quite likely that someone could get close to 190 this year especially if you can chop and change the occupant of the slot with fixtures.
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Re: 5.5+ Defenders
PVA only joined Palace in January he's being overlooked
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Re: 5.5+ Defenders
PVA, Cedric and Lindelof for the opening 3 games, with Simpson in for PVA for the Liverpool away game.
Subject to 74838991929929 changes of mind over the next four weeks
Subject to 74838991929929 changes of mind over the next four weeks
- swadd1er
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Re: 5.5+ Defenders
Chelsea signing Bakayoko has made their defenders even more desirable. Him and Kante in midfield is like a brick wall.
- Baerardi
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Re: 5.5+ Defenders
If (and it's looking more and more like a huge if) Chelsea sign Alex Sandro, does that put a question mark over the minutes of Alonso? I haven't really seen Sandro play, so I'm not 100% sure if they're similar position.
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Re: 5.5+ Defenders
I've been following Alex Sandro since when he still played in Santos alongside Neymar, and frankly, I thought he'd turn out a better player. He looked underwhelming whenever I saw him play at Juventus. Alonso is a better footballer and already had a successful season under Conte, so I don't see him being replaced on the first team.Baerardi wrote:If (and it's looking more and more like a huge if) Chelsea sign Alex Sandro, does that put a question mark over the minutes of Alonso? I haven't really seen Sandro play, so I'm not 100% sure if they're similar position.
Of all the defenders above 5.5, Alonso is the one I'm more interested in. Milner also catches the eye (if you're interested I analysed him on his own thread), but I think he loses on the competition with Alonso, and having both doesn't make much sense with all the great 5.5 options we have this season.
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Re: 5.5+ Defenders
How do you rate Milner and Alonso compared to 6.5-7.0 mids? With all the 4.5 options available in midfield, Alonso and Milner are directly competing with midfielders of the same price in my team.Le Red wrote:I've been following Alex Sandro since when he still played in Santos alongside Neymar, and frankly, I thought he'd turn out a better player. He looked underwhelming whenever I saw him play at Juventus. Alonso is a better footballer and already had a successful season under Conte, so I don't see him being replaced on the first team.Baerardi wrote:If (and it's looking more and more like a huge if) Chelsea sign Alex Sandro, does that put a question mark over the minutes of Alonso? I haven't really seen Sandro play, so I'm not 100% sure if they're similar position.
Of all the defenders above 5.5, Alonso is the one I'm more interested in. Milner also catches the eye (if you're interested I analysed him on his own thread), but I think he loses on the competition with Alonso, and having both doesn't make much sense with all the great 5.5 options we have this season.
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Re: 5.5+ Defenders
Whilst I understand your point on Alonso, there surely isn't any club willing to spend £50-60m on a player for him to then be a back-up option?Le Red wrote:I've been following Alex Sandro since when he still played in Santos alongside Neymar, and frankly, I thought he'd turn out a better player. He looked underwhelming whenever I saw him play at Juventus. Alonso is a better footballer and already had a successful season under Conte, so I don't see him being replaced on the first team.Baerardi wrote:If (and it's looking more and more like a huge if) Chelsea sign Alex Sandro, does that put a question mark over the minutes of Alonso? I haven't really seen Sandro play, so I'm not 100% sure if they're similar position.
Of all the defenders above 5.5, Alonso is the one I'm more interested in. Milner also catches the eye (if you're interested I analysed him on his own thread), but I think he loses on the competition with Alonso, and having both doesn't make much sense with all the great 5.5 options we have this season.
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Re: 5.5+ Defenders
I was reading about it and apparently Juventus are trying to kep the player since they are making Chelsea offer a ridiculous amount of money. It would indeed seem strange to buy such an expensive player and leave him on the bench but it's ironic that Chelsea had Filipe Luís not too long ago, who is a much superior player, and that's exactly what happened. I think Chelsea will not buy the player for that price.
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5.5+ Defenders
Well, Mourinho was their manager then, so...Le Red wrote:I Chelsea had Filipe Luís not too long ago, who is a much superior player, and that's exactly what happened.
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Re: 5.5+ Defenders
Don't think Alex Sandro is leaving. He is apparently scheduled to join the first team in New York for the pre-season
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Re: 5.5+ Defenders
Milner and Trippier were the two that sprang to mind straight off to me, currently joined by Cedric/4.5/4.
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