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Alternatives to late Bench Boost

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Archy
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Alternatives to late Bench Boost

Post by Archy »

We're seeing on the BB 'Boasting' thread that GW37 BB scores have been pretty bad so far (mine included :( ).

I was thinking before the week started that we should look at what alternative uses of the BB would have delivered this season, which may help with planning for next season. To keep things simple, we could look at specific points in the season when we should have had a bench full of fit, playing players. These would be:

1. GW1 - No reason not to have 15 fit, playing players on day 1 if you've done your pre-season research properly.
2. Immediately after 1st Wildcard - As above
(3.) Immediately after 2nd wilcard (only relevant If wildcarded before GW36)

My scores are:

GW1: 13 points
After WC 1 (GW3): 14 points
After WC 2 (GW36): 22 points

As things stand, I'm expecting all 3 of these benchmark points to beat my GW37 BB, which raises serious questions as to the best BB use next season (Not fogetting its not just the BB scores that are relevant, there is also the opportunity cost of not using 2nd wildcard earlier, or using TC on another week).

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Re: Alternatives to late Bench Boost

Post by jeffmcgow »

1. 25
2. 16 (WC GW4)
3. N/A

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Re: Alternatives to late Bench Boost

Post by HQ Manoeuvre »

GW1 - 16 points
GW5 - 17
GW 24 - 3

All are better than my use of it this week.

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Re: Alternatives to late Bench Boost

Post by Neath boy »

1.GW1 bench 23
2. GW7 after WC1 5
3. GW31 after WC2 6

Curently on 17 with 1 bench player to play again (pickford) so hoping to get it up to 18 with only one DGW bencher so quite happy with that.

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Re: Alternatives to late Bench Boost

Post by Stemania »

All we can do is make a call as to where the chips have the most beneficial effect on our teams in theory, depending on the landscape at that time. What then actually happens in terms of points once we've played the chips is, weirdly enough, almost irrelevant to me. :shock:

The BB37 this year has just been very unfortunate so far, and that's not got much to do with actually playing it in GW37 over say GW1 - plus there's still half a GW to go anyway. Pickford got 9 against a relegation fighter last week, but 1 so far this week against another. Holgate, Anichebe etc couldn't be predicted. Edit: my highest bench scores have been in GW5 (20), GW30 (27) and most recently GW35 (25) and there's no way I'd have played BB then - Jaku saving a pen vs Arsenal and then Southampton, and Evans/Capoue getting 9/10 points respectively at Old Trafford weren't likely events.

Oddly enough, I actually think GW1 is one of the last places I'd play BB. For one thing, the chances of 15 starters has got to be much lower than at the other popular times of the season as we don't for sure know starting elevens or even the good cheapies (just educated guesses from a few friendlies). I recall that the main reasons for such high scores in GW1 this year were simply that WBA (who were the popular sub defenders) got a first day CS away from home, and Capoue (who was a very popular 4.5m 8th mid) got double figures. Your 4th/5th best defender and 8th/cheapest attacker getting loads of points on the first day is not a likely outcome imo. Plus, if you've picked 5 defenders and 8 attackers all with good fixtures in GW1 you've likely chosen bad defensive rotation for the next few weeks as a result. Perhaps you can get away with it if you plan to spread the cash all around and then WC GW2 - i.e., use the net and not the fishing rod (I always try to do that to some extent in my starting eleven) - but predetermining the position of the WC before the season starts is not a good idea imo.

My theoretical problem with playing BB after the first WC (other than it likely having less points potential than in a DGW) is that the bench in that first wildcard squad is so important, perhaps the most important bench of the season - much of the bench is likely to last for a huge chunk of the season unless you happen to have free transfers not needed on your big budget players/first eleven - for example, how many of us would have liked to switch the second GK and didn't have the chance? Or perhaps get in McAuley at 4.5/4.6m etc - for the most part it's tough to change that WC bench. I wouldn't want to be choosing a different 8th attacker or rotation defender/GK based strongly on who might have a good game in one week only, when I need them as backup/in rotation for the perhaps as much as the next 20 weeks. At least with a DGW period BB you're likely getting the same DGW cheapies that you would otherwise have gotten anyway - because they'd likely be the obvious cheap regular bench picks for the whole DGW period regardless.

In an ideal world I'd always prefer the best place for all of the BB/TC/WC chips to end up falling quite far away from DGW37, because GW37 is inevitably going to see rotation in many teams and nothing to play for from others. Though sometimes the worst of it might come around GW34 and European commitments like last year I suppose - I think we just have to play each season by ear. Most years it seems to me there just isn't going to be a perfect arrangement and it's a case of fitting them in as best you can. For me the best strategy remains to wait to see the DGW landscape is, then consider all possible combos of the chips.

Who knows, if AOA is replaced next year by something more meaningful the entire conversation might change again!? :mrgreen:

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Re: Alternatives to late Bench Boost

Post by Beerfuelledman »

The BB has been getting a roasting because it hasnt gone well (thus far) in DGW37. I think this may be over emphasising the calls for a different strategy. I still believe the strategy was a decent one - 8 additional games (for many) has to be a great option.

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Re: Alternatives to late Bench Boost

Post by Joccki_10 »

I don't take part in discussions like these.

My bench boost has worked out great. :P

Although I have to say I agree with Stem.

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Re: Alternatives to late Bench Boost

Post by Ruth_NZ »

I am reminded of a great scene in a Bruce Lee film (Enter the Dragon I think).

Bruce has a young Shaolin Monk come for his daily lesson. Bruce holds up his finger. The student concentrates on the finger. Then, quick as lightning, Bruce smacks him around the head. "Don't focus on the finger", he says, "or you will miss all the heavenly glory" (indicating the sky).

I think the chips (wildcard apart) are like that finger. A lot of time is spent trying to maximise them (and a lot of knots are got into as a result) when they really aren't that important anyway. The TC is less an issue because it's easy to play - it's just 1 player. But the BB is almost more trouble than it's worth. People (many) are assessing the BB according to how well it worked this week. That's neither here nor there really - I agree with Stemania in that respect. It's the effect it has on season strategy when you focus on that particular finger that is the bigger issue.

It had to be apparent as soon as the fixtures were clear that with City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs having good DGW fixtures there was going to be big pressure on budget. Yet so many went ahead with the BB in GW37 anyway, something around 60% of the top 10k I believe. Why? I think it's tunnel-vision.

The BB isn't that big of a deal, I have said that all along. Just use it sometime when you can get 12-15 points (you think) and get it out of the way. I only got 10 points with mine (because I chickened out in GW1 when I had 21 points benched) but I have never regretted playing it early. I just wish I had played it even earlier. Or just forgotten about it and found a suitable opportunity later on. The one thing I am sure about is that I won't ever have it getting in the way of my DGW management.

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Re: Alternatives to late Bench Boost

Post by jeffmcgow »

Ruth_NZ wrote: It's the effect it has on season strategy when you focus on that particular finger that is the bigger issue.
This is the realisation I have also come to, albeit a little too late in the season :(

I quite like a comment on FFS by TM245: "... but more so because of the butterfly effect of the planning that many undertook in setting up their squads for this gameweek."

"Butterfly effect" describes the situation very nicely for me. :)

In hindsight I would have wanted to get out 11 (+ 1 sub) DGW players for GW 37 and play the bench boost elsewhere in the season. Trying to maximise both these elements (a large number of doublers + an effective bench boost) in the same gameweek proved to be very difficult (for me at least).

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Re: Alternatives to late Bench Boost

Post by Mo Bot »

Ruth_NZ wrote:I am reminded of a great scene in a Bruce Lee film (Enter the Dragon I think).

Bruce has a young Shaolin Monk come for his daily lesson. Bruce holds up his finger. The student concentrates on the finger. Then, quick as lightning, Bruce smacks him around the head. "Don't focus on the finger", he says, "or you will miss all the heavenly glory" (indicating the sky).

I think the chips (wildcard apart) are like that finger. A lot of time is spent trying to maximise them (and a lot of knots are got into as a result) when they really aren't that important anyway. The TC is less an issue because it's easy to play - it's just 1 player. But the BB is almost more trouble than it's worth. People (many) are assessing the BB according to how well it worked this week. That's neither here nor there really - I agree with Stemania in that respect. It's the effect it has on season strategy when you focus on that particular finger that is the bigger issue.

It had to be apparent as soon as the fixtures were clear that with City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs having good DGW fixtures there was going to be big pressure on budget. Yet so many went ahead with the BB in GW37 anyway, something around 60% of the top 10k I believe. Why? I think it's tunnel-vision.

The BB isn't that big of a deal, I have said that all along. Just use it sometime when you can get 12-15 points (you think) and get it out of the way. I only got 10 points with mine (because I chickened out in GW1 when I had 21 points benched) but I have never regretted playing it early. I just wish I had played it even earlier. Or just forgotten about it and found a suitable opportunity later on. The one thing I am sure about is that I won't ever have it getting in the way of my DGW management.
So you're holding up a different finger to the DGW BB :lol:

It's a luck chip. The few times I've hit double figures on the bench this season are either unexpected clean sheets or penalty points or questionable bench calls by me (both times I benched Luiz for a difficult away game he scored and got a clean sheet). For me, the best time to play it should be any time you front up for the "who to bench" thread. As it happens, most of the times I've had one big benching decision, I got it wrong.

I WC'd early and transferred my way to a DGW37 BB team. I suppose the pertinent question is whether I would have done better with a standard format DGW37 team with 11 excellent doublers and standard bench fodder over a more balanced non-cheapy route. Regardless of points gained, I think I made the wrong decision this year even though my BB is turning out half-decent.

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Re: Alternatives to late Bench Boost

Post by The Username »

Its very unlikely that a DGW of this scale will be seen in GW 37 again i think its very late this year for whatever reason i think its traditionally around 32-35.

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Re: Alternatives to late Bench Boost

Post by MoSe »

The Username wrote:Its very unlikely that a DGW of this scale will be seen in GW 37 again i think its very late this year for whatever reason i think its traditionally around 32-35.
not arguing, just reporting data :)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... =180554287
15/16 DGW34+5games DGW37+4games
14/15 DGW34+2games DGW37+1game
13/14 DGW31+5games DGW34-1+2games DGW37+3games
12/13 33-3+4 36+3
11/12 35+1 36+4

maybe I'll put a summary in a table! ;)

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Re: Alternatives to late Bench Boost

Post by The Username »

MoSe wrote:
The Username wrote:Its very unlikely that a DGW of this scale will be seen in GW 37 again i think its very late this year for whatever reason i think its traditionally around 32-35.
not arguing, just reporting data :)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... =180554287
15/16 DGW34+5games DGW37+4games
14/15 DGW34+2games DGW37+1game
13/14 DGW31+5games DGW34-1+2games DGW37+3games
12/13 33-3+4 36+3
11/12 35+1 36+4

maybe I'll put a summary in a table! ;)
Great work mate, definitely a trend to DGW getting later. I was just going from memory and seemed as if the bigger ones were earlier.

The table would be massively useful!!

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Re: Alternatives to late Bench Boost

Post by maradonash »

The key difference for 15/16 and 16/17 is the fact that the PL schedule wasn't cleared for the FA Cup 1/4 Finals.
That wasn't the case for at least several seasons prior.

So, if the scheduling is the same for next season and IF the 1/4 Final line-up consists predominantly of PL Teams, then I think we can continue to expect several games to feature in DGW37.

Worth noting as well that this has been against a backdrop of English teams failing to progress in Europe.
Arsenal for example, wouldn't have been able to play that Soton game last week, had they made the CL Semis :lol:

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Re: Alternatives to late Bench Boost

Post by gforce1985 »

i think the bench boost has changed my strategy for 5/6 weeks now leaving players in that i wouldn't usually leave just so i can have an extra game out of them. i will still find if hard to resist holding onto it next season. i just think i wont let it dictate so many game weeks prior to it for me. possibly the week after the first wildcard might be best suited.

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Re: Alternatives to late Bench Boost

Post by gallus »

Ruth_NZ wrote:I am reminded of a great scene in a Bruce Lee film (Enter the Dragon I think).

Bruce has a young Shaolin Monk come for his daily lesson. Bruce holds up his finger. The student concentrates on the finger. Then, quick as lightning, Bruce smacks him around the head. "Don't focus on the finger", he says, "or you will miss all the heavenly glory" (indicating the sky).

I think the chips (wildcard apart) are like that finger. A lot of time is spent trying to maximise them (and a lot of knots are got into as a result) when they really aren't that important anyway. The TC is less an issue because it's easy to play - it's just 1 player. But the BB is almost more trouble than it's worth. People (many) are assessing the BB according to how well it worked this week. That's neither here nor there really - I agree with Stemania in that respect. It's the effect it has on season strategy when you focus on that particular finger that is the bigger issue.

It had to be apparent as soon as the fixtures were clear that with City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs having good DGW fixtures there was going to be big pressure on budget. Yet so many went ahead with the BB in GW37 anyway, something around 60% of the top 10k I believe. Why? I think it's tunnel-vision.

The BB isn't that big of a deal, I have said that all along. Just use it sometime when you can get 12-15 points (you think) and get it out of the way. I only got 10 points with mine (because I chickened out in GW1 when I had 21 points benched) but I have never regretted playing it early. I just wish I had played it even earlier. Or just forgotten about it and found a suitable opportunity later on. The one thing I am sure about is that I won't ever have it getting in the way of my DGW management.
It's definitely an overrated chip. Last year I went with a WC+DGW BB combo. The boost got me 12 points. This year I boosted in a SGW. It got me 10 points. The week before my boost I benched 22 points. It's all about luck with this chip.

Next year I will definitely play it before GW36. There's simply too much rotation for a good boost in the last few gameweeks.

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Re: Alternatives to late Bench Boost

Post by Turd Ferguson »

gallus wrote:
Ruth_NZ wrote:I am reminded of a great scene in a Bruce Lee film (Enter the Dragon I think).

Bruce has a young Shaolin Monk come for his daily lesson. Bruce holds up his finger. The student concentrates on the finger. Then, quick as lightning, Bruce smacks him around the head. "Don't focus on the finger", he says, "or you will miss all the heavenly glory" (indicating the sky).

I think the chips (wildcard apart) are like that finger. A lot of time is spent trying to maximise them (and a lot of knots are got into as a result) when they really aren't that important anyway. The TC is less an issue because it's easy to play - it's just 1 player. But the BB is almost more trouble than it's worth. People (many) are assessing the BB according to how well it worked this week. That's neither here nor there really - I agree with Stemania in that respect. It's the effect it has on season strategy when you focus on that particular finger that is the bigger issue.

It had to be apparent as soon as the fixtures were clear that with City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs having good DGW fixtures there was going to be big pressure on budget. Yet so many went ahead with the BB in GW37 anyway, something around 60% of the top 10k I believe. Why? I think it's tunnel-vision.

The BB isn't that big of a deal, I have said that all along. Just use it sometime when you can get 12-15 points (you think) and get it out of the way. I only got 10 points with mine (because I chickened out in GW1 when I had 21 points benched) but I have never regretted playing it early. I just wish I had played it even earlier. Or just forgotten about it and found a suitable opportunity later on. The one thing I am sure about is that I won't ever have it getting in the way of my DGW management.
It's definitely an overrated chip. Last year I went with a WC+DGW BB combo. The boost got me 12 points. This year I boosted in a SGW. It got me 10 points. The week before my boost I benched 22 points. It's all about luck with this chip.

Next year I will definitely play it before GW36. There's simply too much rotation for a good boost in the last few gameweeks.
Yeah, tight schedules, European commitments, teams already on the beach. I'm starting to accept that it's never going to be the 30 point chip that we all hope for when we plan it out. The exception will be if there's truly worthy base price players available. Stephens, Holgate and Pickford on paper should have been good for about 15 points between them, but they've backfired. Maybe it was an unlucky year, but I think it may be the norm due to the end of year issues facing teams.

I might just do it after the first wildcard next season and accept ~10 points or so and not let it distract me late in the season.

That said, my bench boost of Jaku, Stephens, Matic and Holgate were as close to base price as possible. I tried not to let it affect my budget for my main lineup. They may only deliver 4 points TOTAL. I really don't think it was unrealistic to expect 20 points from those four when I included them in my GW36 wildcard. Hull were fighting for survival, Holgate and Stephens both had consistent playing time for several weeks leading up to it, and Matic may have appeared in both games if Spurs hadn't lost to West Ham. I feel like I rolled snake eyes four times in a row with my choices, but maybe I just have to acknowledge that the risk is always going to be higher in the last few weeks.

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Re: Alternatives to late Bench Boost

Post by The Real Slim Shady »

I just hate these 'chips' in general. Ruined the game.

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Re: Alternatives to late Bench Boost

Post by MoSe »

Not mentioning Skynet

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