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Ake

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Simenon
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Re: Ake

Post by Simenon »

blahblah wrote:I can remember the name(s), but I'm sure that I have read a few rumours\stories.

SSN Reporting Llorente to Chelsea, with Butshy (A lil Franglais pun for you all) going the other way on loan.
Llorente?? I know he'd probably just be cover, but...LLORENTE????

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Re: Ake

Post by blahblah »

He used to be really good?

SSN seemed rather confident, as opposed to the rather random Ratkatic to Citeh.

If half of the deals they have mentioned in the last 5 mins happen it is going to be a crazy January (Eto'o to Hull ffs)

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Re: Ake

Post by Simenon »

blahblah wrote:He used to be really good?

SSN seemed rather confident, as opposed to the rather random Ratkatic to Citeh.

If half of the deals they have mentioned in the last 5 mins happen it is going to be a crazy January (Eto'o to Hull ffs)
Llorente did play for Conte once at Juventus, but he faded away rather quickly.

Eto'o to Hull would be great! He is a free agent, after all.

With regard to City, someone that hasn't been mentioned much this season is Nolito. I tend to think that Batshuayi would be better suited to City, and that Nolito would be better suited to Chelsea. Nolito would slot well into that 3-4-3 formation on the left of the front 3, while Batshuayi would be working with KDB at City and would take some of the weight off Aguero, who hasn't been performing well. Then there's also Ikea Nachos, who they can loan out to a relegation-battling team to give him experience.

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Re: RE: Re: Ake

Post by Ruth_NZ »

Aar0n_28 wrote:The comments are interesting. Many Chelsea fans are calling for Alonso to be dropped in favour of Ake. Has he really been that poor?!
blahblah wrote:Alonso has been a wastrel going forward and should have a load of Assists points by now. Aren't Chelsea after a LWB?
I might as well offer what I know here. And I will write from a purely football perspective (not FPL).

First of all, no, Alonso has not been poor, he has been very good. He creates many chances, it's just that few have been converted and that is down to happenstance rather than poor crossing for example. His finishing has been a bit below par so far but to be fair it's a small sample size, wing-backs don't generally get that many clear chances in a game. His energy is good and his defensive work has been pretty solid as well. I have heard little or no criticism of him from Chelsea fans, quite the reverse in actual fact.

Some have blamed him for the Spurs goals 5 days ago because the crosses came from his side. But that's wrong, he was doing his job in covering Walker (who was very advanced) and preventing him from crossing or getting to the byline. Both times the ball was turned back and a little inside for Eriksen who had drifted very wide (in what was probably a prepared tactic). Eriksen should probably have been picked up by Hazard in that position, otherwise by Matic. Neither happened. Cahill also made the same mistake twice in being drawn to the ball, meaning Luiz pulled more central. That left space for Alli to get between Azpi and Moses (neither are tall) at the far post. As I say, a prepared tactic I think and very well executed.

Anyway, no, Alonso has not been poor and to the best of my knowledge there has been no talk of him as a weak link. I think people should remember that this is a team that has won 13 out of 14 games, is 5 points clear and kept 10 clean sheets in those 13 wins. Even the Spurs game was very even. Chelsea could just as well have drawn or won (which isn't to say the win was undeserved by Spurs). Anyway, there is no sense in which Conte or anyone else is worried about the quality of the 1st team, why would there be? And Conte does not like rotation, his history shows he likes a settled team, very much the opposite of Guardiola.

What there is a concern about is cover in the case of injuries and/or suspensions and that's where Aké comes in.

Aké has been at Chelsea since age 15 and was part of a youth setup that has carried all before it in recent years, winning multiple age-group trophies at national and European level. Aké captained many of those teams. He also had a great career at youth level for Holland, also often as captain. In terms of position, he came to Chelsea as a defender and was mainly used as a LB for Chelsea youth and for Holland youth, mainly because Chelsea felt he lacked height to play CB (he is under 6' 0"). Personally he prefers DM and most or all of his appearances for the Chelsea 1st team have been as CM/DM. Lately he has played there for Holland U21 as well. He was exclusively used as a LB by Watford last season; Bournemouth have used him as a CB.

Aké was always seen as one of the likeliest to emerge through the youth ranks into the 1st team full squad (and eventually the team) and it was planned for him to be given a full squad role next season after 2 seasons gaining experience on loan. However the departure of Oscar and Mikel meant that additional CM cover was needed and that, coupled with the fact that Aké can cover LCB and (possibly) LWB as well, meant that a squad slot opened up 6 months earlier than planned. Chelsea are keen to transition their terrific crop of youth team players now entering the 19-22 age group into the first team squad - at least those that are good enough to make it. By bringing Aké back now they save themselves from needing to buy cover for those 3 positions and thus blocking the route for the likes of Aké, Christensen and RLC (who may now get a loan till the end of season to gain some more 1st team experience).

So, who does Aké's return threaten in the Chelsea 1st team? No-one. He is there as a squad member and to provide cover. If injuries intervene he may start games. If that happens and he plays very well (as happened at Bournemouth) he might keep his place. But right now? No. FA Cup starts, off the bench in the PL I imagine.

Chelsea have been linked with a few players and one that is often mentioned on the Chelsea grapevine is Michail Antonio. He's a Londoner and would help with the "homegrown (association trained)" contingent, especially for the UEFA CL next season. He is seen as a potential improvement on Moses - taller and better defensively. But personally I don't see that happening before the summer, I think West Ham would be very unlikely to sell him now.

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Re: RE: Re: Ake

Post by Gambit »

Ruth_NZ wrote:
Aar0n_28 wrote:The comments are interesting. Many Chelsea fans are calling for Alonso to be dropped in favour of Ake. Has he really been that poor?!
blahblah wrote:Alonso has been a wastrel going forward and should have a load of Assists points by now. Aren't Chelsea after a LWB?
I might as well offer what I know here. And I will write from a purely football perspective (not FPL).

First of all, no, Alonso has not been poor, he has been very good. He creates many chances, it's just that few have been converted and that is down to happenstance rather than poor crossing for example. His finishing has been a bit below par so far but to be fair it's a small sample size, wing-backs don't generally get that many clear chances in a game. His energy is good and his defensive work has been pretty solid as well. I have heard little or no criticism of him from Chelsea fans, quite the reverse in actual fact.

Some have blamed him for the Spurs goals 5 days ago because the crosses came from his side. But that's wrong, he was doing his job in covering Walker (who was very advanced) and preventing him from crossing or getting to the byline. Both times the ball was turned back and a little inside for Eriksen who had drifted very wide (in what was probably a prepared tactic). Eriksen should probably have been picked up by Hazard in that position, otherwise by Matic. Neither happened. Cahill also made the same mistake twice in being drawn to the ball, meaning Luiz pulled more central. That left space for Alli to get between Azpi and Moses (neither are tall) at the far post. As I say, a prepared tactic I think and very well executed.

Anyway, no, Alonso has not been poor and to the best of my knowledge there has been no talk of him as a weak link. I think people should remember that this is a team that has won 13 out of 14 games, is 5 points clear and kept 10 clean sheets in those 13 wins. Even the Spurs game was very even. Chelsea could just as well have drawn or won (which isn't to say the win was undeserved by Spurs). Anyway, there is no sense in which Conte or anyone else is worried about the quality of the 1st team, why would there be? And Conte does not like rotation, his history shows he likes a settled team, very much the opposite of Guardiola.

What there is a concern about is cover in the case of injuries and/or suspensions and that's where Aké comes in.

Aké has been at Chelsea since age 15 and was part of a youth setup that has carried all before it in recent years, winning multiple age-group trophies at national and European level. Aké captained many of those teams. He also had a great career at youth level for Holland, also often as captain. In terms of position, he came to Chelsea as a defender and was mainly used as a LB for Chelsea youth and for Holland youth, mainly because Chelsea felt he lacked height to play CB (he is under 6' 0"). Personally he prefers DM and most or all of his appearances for the Chelsea 1st team have been as CM/DM. Lately he has played there for Holland U21 as well. He was exclusively used as a LB by Watford last season; Bournemouth have used him as a CB.

Aké was always seen as one of the likeliest to emerge through the youth ranks into the 1st team full squad (and eventually the team) and it was planned for him to be given a full squad role next season after 2 seasons gaining experience on loan. However the departure of Oscar and Mikel meant that additional CM cover was needed and that, coupled with the fact that Aké can cover LCB and (possibly) LWB as well, meant that a squad slot opened up 6 months earlier than planned. Chelsea are keen to transition their terrific crop of youth team players now entering the 19-22 age group into the first team squad - at least those that are good enough to make it. By bringing Aké back now they save themselves from needing to buy cover for those 3 positions and thus blocking the route for the likes of Aké, Christensen and RLC (who may now get a loan till the end of season to gain some more 1st team experience).

So, who does Aké's return threaten in the Chelsea 1st team? No-one. He is there as a squad member and to provide cover. If injuries intervene he may start games. If that happens and he plays very well (as happened at Bournemouth) he might keep his place. But right now? No. FA Cup starts, off the bench in the PL I imagine.

Chelsea have been linked with a few players and one that is often mentioned on the Chelsea grapevine is Michail Antonio. He's a Londoner and would help with the "homegrown (association trained)" contingent, especially for the UEFA CL next season. He is seen as a potential improvement on Moses - taller and better defensively. But personally I don't see that happening before the summer, I think West Ham would be very unlikely to sell him now.
sorry Ruth, I disagree, watched quite a lot of Chelsea this season and Alonso (along with Moses) has always looked the player where they could improve. Not saying he has been "poor" but for somebody who receives so much of the ball he often does nothing with it and has also looked suspect defensively.

I'm not sure if Ake will replace him, probably not, but I would bet good money that neither Alonso nor Moses will be the first choice Chelsea wing backs next season.

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Re: RE: Re: Ake

Post by Ruth_NZ »

Gambit wrote:Sorry Ruth, I disagree, watched quite a lot of Chelsea this season and Alonso (along with Moses) has always looked the player where they could improve. Not saying he has been "poor" but for somebody who receives so much of the ball he often does nothing with it and has also looked suspect defensively.

I'm not sure if Ake will replace him, probably not, but I would bet good money that neither Alonso nor Moses will be the first choice Chelsea wing backs next season.
Fair enough. I'm just reporting what I have seen in the games I have been to and what I have heard from other supporters. And on Chelsea TV etc. There hasn't been any groundswell of dissatisfaction with the wingbacks - mind you with the team winning game after game there hasn't been a groundswell of dissatisfaction with anything really. :)

LB has been a problem position for some seasons now, since Ashley Cole left really. We had Filipe Luis, a really top-class LB signed from AM (he was in the La Liga team of the year in the season before he came). He couldn't displace Azpi, despite Azpi being right footed. Then Baba Rahman, same thing. He's still a Chelsea player and very attack-focused. If his loan at Schalke continues to go well he's an option that is already on the books. Now Alonso. That's around £60m spent on that position. :? Anyway, Alonso must be doing something right, he's the first of those three establish himself as a 1st team regular at least.

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Re: Ake

Post by TheoRiginal »

Alonso reminds me of Moreno.

'Nuff said?

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Re: Ake

Post by The Catman »

Let's face it - he's n'Ake'd now in FPL terms...

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Re: RE: Re: Ake

Post by blahblah »

Ruth_NZ wrote:mind you with the team winning game after game there hasn't been a groundswell of dissatisfaction with anything really. :)
Exactly?

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Re: Ake

Post by MoSe »

The Catman wrote:Let's face it - he's n'Ake'd now in FPL terms...
he's Ake-y player ...NOT
:oops:
(recycled from He's-key ..... :oops: :oops: :oops: )

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Re: Ake

Post by Weisenwolf »

Oh dear :shock:

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Re: Ake

Post by blahblah »

Weisenwolf wrote:Oh dear :shock:
I thought he was quite cheap :lol:

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Re: Ake

Post by Weisenwolf »

Aldershot Rejects wrote:FPL updated so he is now down as a Chelsea player.
He isn't on my phone; maybe my phone is an optimist :?

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Re: Ake

Post by cesc408 »

Simenon wrote:
blahblah wrote:He used to be really good?

SSN seemed rather confident, as opposed to the rather random Ratkatic to Citeh.

If half of the deals they have mentioned in the last 5 mins happen it is going to be a crazy January (Eto'o to Hull ffs)
Llorente did play for Conte once at Juventus, but he faded away rather quickly.

Eto'o to Hull would be great! He is a free agent, after all.

With regard to City, someone that hasn't been mentioned much this season is Nolito. I tend to think that Batshuayi would be better suited to City, and that Nolito would be better suited to Chelsea. Nolito would slot well into that 3-4-3 formation on the left of the front 3, while Batshuayi would be working with KDB at City and would take some of the weight off Aguero who hasn't been performing well. Then there's also Ikea Nachos, who they can loan out to a relegation-battling team to give him experience.
If Nolito was at Chelsea LF, in Hazards position, I'm assuming you would move Hazard to the RF position and not elsewhere or on the bench?
If that's the case I think that's harsh on Willian and Pedro who have done well and been scoring/assisting which ever has been seected. If he was at Chelsea I don't think he would get selected ahead of anybody in the current front 3. Not exactly been brilliant when selected for City, and can't really break into that team.

On the Bats, Would he get more time at City then at Chelsea, Maybe but the competition is still as strong with Aguero, Nacho, Sterling and now the new boy Jesus. Not really getting a look in at Chelsea just yet with Diego in great form.

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Re: Ake

Post by carver »

He will just be cover this season and they will see if he can play wing back (he has the attributes)

But if not I'd expect him to replace Cahill next season

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Re: Ake

Post by Owsler »

Makes me sick to think of a player like Ake being brought back for 'cover'. Scandalous.

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Re: Ake

Post by snakzz »

Poor management by conte if he is brought back to sit on the bench. Nuff said

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Re: Ake

Post by blahblah »

snakzz wrote:Poor management by conte if he is brought back to sit on the bench. Nuff said
That's exactly why I expect him to get match time. (Conte does speak quite a bit of sense, imho.)

Whether that makes him a viable FPL pick is my issue, atm.

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Re: Ake

Post by Gambit »

snakzz wrote:Poor management by conte if he is brought back to sit on the bench. Nuff said
not really, they are going for the title, probably not going to do much business in January and they do lack cover for Alonso. It makes sense that he wants a player who has proven he can cope in the PL and can cover multiple defensive positions to be available to him for what is an outstanding chance of success.

Injuries can derail even the best teams and I think it's good management that he has brought him back to give Chelsea as many options as possible. Will also keep the established 1st teamers on their toes if they know there is a quality young player who can take their place sitting on the bench.

Could prove to be a very wise decision.

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Re: Ake

Post by snakzz »

blahblah wrote:
snakzz wrote:Poor management by conte if he is brought back to sit on the bench. Nuff said
That's exactly why I expect him to get match time. (Conte does speak quite a bit of sense, imho.)

Whether that makes him a viable FPL pick is my issue, atm.
I keep him and alonso for lei and hull and then reevalute.

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Re: Ake

Post by snakzz »

Gambit wrote:
snakzz wrote:Poor management by conte if he is brought back to sit on the bench. Nuff said
not really, they are going for the title, probably not going to do much business in January and they do lack cover for Alonso. It makes sense that he wants a player who has proven he can cope in the PL and can cover multiple defensive positions to be available to him for what is an outstanding chance of success.

Injuries can derail even the best teams and I think it's good management that he has brought him back to give Chelsea as many options as possible. Will also keep the established 1st teamers on their toes if they know there is a quality young player who can take their place sitting on the bench.

Could prove to be a very wise decision.
The best cover for alonso is no doubt azp.

And there are alot of cbs to replace azp as cb.

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Re: Ake

Post by hancockjr »

Remember he's spent much of this season on Bournemouth's bench - 15 minutes in 11 games.

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Re: Ake

Post by Billy Bongo »

Lol at poor management by Conte, how do you get to that strange conclusion?

sent from Tapatalk that can't do paragraphs properly

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Re: Ake

Post by snakzz »

Billy Bongo wrote:Lol at poor management by Conte, how do you get to that strange conclusion?

sent from Tapatalk that can't do paragraphs properly
Would rather let him play regulary for an decent team and be first pick and get alot of matches and experience under the belt.

Then warm the bench in chelsea when they have equal substitues for him.

Well maybe thats just how I see it.

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Re: RE: Re: Ake

Post by DonTanTilla »

Ruth_NZ wrote:Chelsea have been linked with a few players and one that is often mentioned on the Chelsea grapevine is Michail Antonio. He's a Londoner and would help with the "homegrown (association trained)" contingent, especially for the UEFA CL next season. He is seen as a potential improvement on Moses - taller and better defensively. But personally I don't see that happening before the summer, I think West Ham would be very unlikely to sell him now.

Batshuayi linked with loan to West Ham, might be a sufficient makeweight to see Antonio go the other way if it materialises.

Eyes on Llorente, if he moves, get some money on Antonio to Chelsea

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Re: RE: Re: Ake

Post by Billy Bongo »

snakzz wrote:
Billy Bongo wrote:Lol at poor management by Conte, how do you get to that strange conclusion?

sent from Tapatalk that can't do paragraphs properly
Would rather let him play regulary for an decent team and be first pick and get alot of matches and experience under the belt.

Then warm the bench in chelsea when they have equal substitues for him.

Well maybe thats just how I see it.
It's not poor management to pull back a guy clearly playing to prem level and in form, when your own wingbacks aren't burning it up.

Ake is clearly good enough to get into the match day squad so he's back.

You don't hear anyone say it's poor management from Potch because Davies and Trippier don't get mins and should be loaned. Ake no different to them

sent from Tapatalk that can't do paragraphs properly

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Re: Ake

Post by MoSe »

Weisenwolf wrote:
Aldershot Rejects wrote:FPL updated so he is now down as a Chelsea player.
He isn't on my phone; maybe my phone is an optimist :?
your phone is a small, single-handed sailing dinghy intended for use by children up to the age of 15 ???

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Re: Ake

Post by MoSe »

snakzz on 07 Jan 2017, 19:56 wrote:If ake is called backed and conte dont intend to use him, it would be extremely bad management by conte.
snakzz on 09 Jan 2017, 22:20 wrote:Poor management by conte if he is brought back to sit on the bench. Nuff said
you were afraid your 1st post got overlooked? ;)

seriously tho, it's opinions, and sensible objections / alternative povs have already been proposed above
I'd just add a couple possible more reasons

- there's 18 GWs to go (plus FA Cup), maybe he won't use him at first, but is considering to introduce him progressively for the last part of the season
suppose he's planning to use him from April on, but he can only bring him on in January or in July -- what would you choose?
not saying it's like that, just hypothetical

- you'd have learned by now that Conte's errr... slogan? clichè? catchphrase? is "work"
he puts much emphasis on reviewing tactical drills with the whole team working together, so that a player movements in harmony with the rest of the team become an "automatism" he doesn't even need to think of to put them in practice, like a natural reflex
Same with attitude and team spirit, which can't be built individually
I don't think he'd like to take a player albeit he played regularly for a decent team till last gw and "shoehorn" him into a "living organism" from the get go.
I figure he'd want to have him training midweek with the team first, at least 2 or 3 weeks long, if not 1 month or two, before actually using him

Of course I'm not in his mind, and I'm not saying either that's the right or wrong thing to do

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Re: RE: Re: Ake

Post by blahblah »

DonTanTilla wrote:
Ruth_NZ wrote:Chelsea have been linked with a few players and one that is often mentioned on the Chelsea grapevine is Michail Antonio. He's a Londoner and would help with the "homegrown (association trained)" contingent, especially for the UEFA CL next season. He is seen as a potential improvement on Moses - taller and better defensively. But personally I don't see that happening before the summer, I think West Ham would be very unlikely to sell him now.

Batshuayi linked with loan to West Ham, might be a sufficient makeweight to see Antonio go the other way if it materialises.

Eyes on Llorente, if he moves, get some money on Antonio to Chelsea
Why does Llorente make Antonio more likely?

(Antonio is actually quite pants with the ball on the ground, btw.)

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Re: RE: Re: Ake

Post by Ruth_NZ »

blahblah wrote:Why does Llorente make Antonio more likely? (Antonio is actually quite pants with the ball on the ground, btw.)
I guess because West Ham want Batshuayi on loan. If Chelsea signed Llorente they could possibly make a Batshuayi loan part of an Antonio deal, either now or in the summer. Personally I like what I have seen from Batshuayi and would be a bit disappointed to see this happen. Chelsea have a tendency to sign very good younger players and then not play them - Salah, KDB, Lukaku, Baba Rahman, Moses for example, and now Batshuayi - and it's not a great trend.

Part of the attraction of Antonio is his aerial ability I imagine. Moses RWB and Azpilicueta RCB are neither of them tall and that was exposed for both Spurs goals in the recent game. In addition, Antonio has experience at RB and is probably a stronger and more natural defender than Moses.

On Llorente, he played one season at Juventus under Conte and scored 16 goals in 34 Serie A games on the way to the title. You don't need to look further than that for a reason why Conte might want him. Similar to Zlatan really - what United manager other than Mourinho would have signed a 35yo to be his main striker? Not that Llorente is anything near Zlatan's class, of course. The point is that Conte knows and trusts him.

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