Compounder wrote:FFS has he gone to Everton already no loyalty anymore in football do I need to replace Barkley now.Le Red wrote:Football Hero wrote:
Well, the lack of trust from the managers was one of the reasons I wouldn't touch him with a barge pole at Norwich, but Koeman seems to have more trust in him than the Norwich managers.
fixedYes, people are playing football at the age of 8. That doesn't mean they don't have a huge amount of development ahead of them when they are 21. Players should still be learning and improving at 28/29, so of course there is a long way to go from 21! Cristiano Ronaldo is one of the most naturally gifted players there has ever been. Have a look back through his career. You'll figure it out.Football Hero wrote:At 21, they've been playing football for 13 or 14 years, why do they have a huge amount of development ahead of them? Football isn't that complicated and they should already have all of the basics by then. The amount they learn in their first 50 professional games will be far greater than what they continue to learn in the future.Bobby Chopps wrote:But still irrelevant, as Eddy was saying. 21 is a young age for a footballer. A player of that age has a huge amount of development ahead of him, and is not even close to their peak. The fact that a 21-year-old (Gray) is old enough to be held accountable for any offensive comments or tweets they have made is entirely irrelevant to the conversation.
The idea of ''young players that have already been around for a couple of years needing to learn'' is often just an excuse put out for under-performing players that happen to be young(ish) and supposedly have time on their side. We've seen many examples of players that never learn or get much better, (Zaha, Moses, Downing, Henderson, Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain etc.), and the reality is they were just never good enough; and we've also seen many players that are good enough, also demonstrate that right from the get-go when they were in their teens, (Alli, Dier, Kane, Owen, Fowler, Rooney etc.).
I'm not saying players don't learn and slightly improve throughout their careers until they reach their early 30's and go through a physical decline, but the difference is not that pronounced in most cases, and I don't think people can assume that just because a player is 21, he hasn't reached close to his ceiling in terms of performance.
Yeah, Ronaldo arrived at Man Utd when he was 18, he was fairly decent straight away, (he made 29 league appearances in his first season), and kept on improving. He got to a very high level of performance by the time he was 20/21, and then he's maintained or improved slightly since then. So essentially by the age of 21, a football player isn't really that 'young' any more, and if they had 'star' qualities in them they would be showing it by then.Bobby Chopps wrote:Yes, people are playing football at the age of 8. That doesn't mean they don't have a huge amount of development ahead of them when they are 21. Players should still be learning and improving at 28/29, so of course there is a long way to go from 21! Cristiano Ronaldo is one of the most naturally gifted players there has ever been. Have a look back through his career. You'll figure it out.Football Hero wrote:At 21, they've been playing football for 13 or 14 years, why do they have a huge amount of development ahead of them? Football isn't that complicated and they should already have all of the basics by then. The amount they learn in their first 50 professional games will be far greater than what they continue to learn in the future.Bobby Chopps wrote:But still irrelevant, as Eddy was saying. 21 is a young age for a footballer. A player of that age has a huge amount of development ahead of him, and is not even close to their peak. The fact that a 21-year-old (Gray) is old enough to be held accountable for any offensive comments or tweets they have made is entirely irrelevant to the conversation.
The idea of ''young players that have already been around for a couple of years needing to learn'' is often just an excuse put out for under-performing players that happen to be young(ish) and supposedly have time on their side. We've seen many examples of players that never learn or get much better, (Zaha, Moses, Downing, Henderson, Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain etc.), and the reality is they were just never good enough; and we've also seen many players that are good enough, also demonstrate that right from the get-go when they were in their teens, (Alli, Dier, Kane, Owen, Fowler, Rooney etc.).
I'm not saying players don't learn and slightly improve throughout their careers until they reach their early 30's and go through a physical decline, but the difference is not that pronounced in most cases, and I don't think people can assume that just because a player is 21, he hasn't reached close to his ceiling in terms of performance.
Nice username.The Libero wrote:...
I thought Vardy was crushing the lower leagues and winning titles for Halifax and Fleetwood? I'm sorry, but he's been doing this for a while!HungryHungrySuarez wrote:And then you have Jamie Vardy, who only reaches his potential nearer 30.
I'm sure there are better examples, but i can't think of one off the top of my head
Wow. Ronaldo has only "maintained or improved slightly" since he was 20/21? If that's your argument, there really is no reasoning with you. I'm out! But I'm chuckling while I walk away...Football Hero wrote:Yeah, Ronaldo arrived at Man Utd when he was 18, he was fairly decent straight away, (he made 29 league appearances in his first season), and kept on improving. He got to a very high level of performance by the time he was 20/21, and then he's maintained or improved slightly since then. So essentially by the age of 21, a football player isn't really that 'young' any more, and if they had 'star' qualities in them they would be showing it by then.Bobby Chopps wrote:Yes, people are playing football at the age of 8. That doesn't mean they don't have a huge amount of development ahead of them when they are 21. Players should still be learning and improving at 28/29, so of course there is a long way to go from 21! Cristiano Ronaldo is one of the most naturally gifted players there has ever been. Have a look back through his career. You'll figure it out.Football Hero wrote:At 21, they've been playing football for 13 or 14 years, why do they have a huge amount of development ahead of them? Football isn't that complicated and they should already have all of the basics by then. The amount they learn in their first 50 professional games will be far greater than what they continue to learn in the future.Bobby Chopps wrote:But still irrelevant, as Eddy was saying. 21 is a young age for a footballer. A player of that age has a huge amount of development ahead of him, and is not even close to their peak. The fact that a 21-year-old (Gray) is old enough to be held accountable for any offensive comments or tweets they have made is entirely irrelevant to the conversation.
The idea of ''young players that have already been around for a couple of years needing to learn'' is often just an excuse put out for under-performing players that happen to be young(ish) and supposedly have time on their side. We've seen many examples of players that never learn or get much better, (Zaha, Moses, Downing, Henderson, Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain etc.), and the reality is they were just never good enough; and we've also seen many players that are good enough, also demonstrate that right from the get-go when they were in their teens, (Alli, Dier, Kane, Owen, Fowler, Rooney etc.).
I'm not saying players don't learn and slightly improve throughout their careers until they reach their early 30's and go through a physical decline, but the difference is not that pronounced in most cases, and I don't think people can assume that just because a player is 21, he hasn't reached close to his ceiling in terms of performance.
It's not the peak achievement of his career, but that's just because he was someone that was going criminally unnoticed for a long while. He was still performing like a top player even in those non-league seasons, but only Leicester were watching...HungryHungrySuarez wrote:i'm not sure you could count a league title for halifax town as anywhere near the peak of his career, unless he's been seriously missed by the scouts for many many years.
But i kinda take your point. ish
You do realise that we was worth £80M back in 2009 right? That is more like £120M in today's money. He was only 24 then and had been dominating the Premier League for at least 3 seasons by that point, (Ferguson already had to knock back Real Madrid when they were desperately trying to sign him in the summer of 2008).Bobby Chopps wrote:Wow. Ronaldo has only "maintained or improved slightly" since he was 20/21? If that's your argument, there really is no reasoning with you. I'm out! But I'm chuckling while I walk away...Football Hero wrote:Yeah, Ronaldo arrived at Man Utd when he was 18, he was fairly decent straight away, (he made 29 league appearances in his first season), and kept on improving. He got to a very high level of performance by the time he was 20/21, and then he's maintained or improved slightly since then. So essentially by the age of 21, a football player isn't really that 'young' any more, and if they had 'star' qualities in them they would be showing it by then.Bobby Chopps wrote:Yes, people are playing football at the age of 8. That doesn't mean they don't have a huge amount of development ahead of them when they are 21. Players should still be learning and improving at 28/29, so of course there is a long way to go from 21! Cristiano Ronaldo is one of the most naturally gifted players there has ever been. Have a look back through his career. You'll figure it out.Football Hero wrote:At 21, they've been playing football for 13 or 14 years, why do they have a huge amount of development ahead of them? Football isn't that complicated and they should already have all of the basics by then. The amount they learn in their first 50 professional games will be far greater than what they continue to learn in the future.Bobby Chopps wrote:But still irrelevant, as Eddy was saying. 21 is a young age for a footballer. A player of that age has a huge amount of development ahead of him, and is not even close to their peak. The fact that a 21-year-old (Gray) is old enough to be held accountable for any offensive comments or tweets they have made is entirely irrelevant to the conversation.
The idea of ''young players that have already been around for a couple of years needing to learn'' is often just an excuse put out for under-performing players that happen to be young(ish) and supposedly have time on their side. We've seen many examples of players that never learn or get much better, (Zaha, Moses, Downing, Henderson, Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain etc.), and the reality is they were just never good enough; and we've also seen many players that are good enough, also demonstrate that right from the get-go when they were in their teens, (Alli, Dier, Kane, Owen, Fowler, Rooney etc.).
I'm not saying players don't learn and slightly improve throughout their careers until they reach their early 30's and go through a physical decline, but the difference is not that pronounced in most cases, and I don't think people can assume that just because a player is 21, he hasn't reached close to his ceiling in terms of performance.
NoEyeDeer (good poster I think) confused me alot last year ... had a version of that as my team name forever I think ... not posted since apr but if he/she does post I'll get all confused againLibero wrote:Nice username.The Libero wrote:...
Maybe Libero is the imposter and The Libero came to reclaim his inheritage.RomynPG wrote:NoEyeDeer (good poster I think) confused me alot last year ... had a version of that as my team name forever I think ... not posted since apr but if he/she does post I'll get all confused againLibero wrote:Nice username.The Libero wrote:...
You need to stake your claim as the softer comfier Libero maybe
libero.png
Libero wrote:Nice username.The Libero wrote:...
awkward. Sorry, didn't mean to steal your thunder A Sammer avatar? All is coolThe Libero wrote:Libero wrote:Nice username.The Libero wrote:...
