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A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

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eastcentral1
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Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by eastcentral1 »

They were still on his twitter feed by all accounts. So he was publishing them on the Internet to the world while a Burnley player. If he doesn't realise that's how twitter works, then that's his problem.

Also, 20 years old is well old enough to know better, so I don't think his age is any excuse.

P.s. They've probably come to light now because he became a high profile Premier League player pretty much as of today.

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Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by blahblah »

Arguably Burnley should have been going through all the players "Tweets" etc this summer?

Personally I would ban idiots from Social Media in such positions.

Didn't some WHAm player Tweet how happy he was to joining Burnley in the last day or so, then apologise for having someone do his Tweets for him?

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Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by Tall Paul »

That was Benteke, apparently he has the same person doing his Twitter as Steven Defour.

Fair comments Eastcentral and I'm certainly not condoning the tweets, the club should be more diligent with this sort of thing.

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Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by blahblah »

Yep, I knew there was some multiple Claret and Blue involved.

Letting idiots speak to the world is stupid - even if they get a numpty top do it. AND no-one quizzes them on how few of their "tweets" do they actually make....

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Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by breakfastbutty »

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -tweet-gay
Let him delete the offending tweets (or apologise, at the least) and move on? It's no mountain being made of a molehill, some of the tweets are a little dated in their views; let's just say; but maybe that's the reasonable way forward.

Not saying it will be allowed to happen though.

I wish he did better at the BPS, since I persisted with him in my team this week and was rewarded for it. But a goal and an assist every other game is a better return than I was expecting for his FPL price, so fair dos.

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Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by HungryHungrySuarez »

those tweets paint him as an extremely dislikeable guy, and one i wouldn't want to be cheering for tbh.

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Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by Tall Paul »

HungryHungrySuarez wrote:those tweets paint him as an extremely dislikeable guy, and one i wouldn't want to be cheering for tbh.
A little bit rich from someone with a username like yours.

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Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by Ironfist »

Tall Paul wrote:
HungryHungrySuarez wrote:those tweets paint him as an extremely dislikeable guy, and one i wouldn't want to be cheering for tbh.
A little bit rich from someone with a username like yours.
:lol:

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Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by Bertie64 »

Tall Paul wrote:
HungryHungrySuarez wrote:those tweets paint him as an extremely dislikeable guy, and one i wouldn't want to be cheering for tbh.
A little bit rich from someone with a username like yours.
I must be missing something.... He has a username that takes the piss out of the sad side of an otherwise great player. Then criticises the shameful past of another player. Seems pretty consistent to me. If he was called SuarezIsGod the fair enough but even then... Has everyone really become super sensitive here all of a sudden?

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Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by LamebrainEddy »

Bertie64 wrote:
Tall Paul wrote:
HungryHungrySuarez wrote:those tweets paint him as an extremely dislikeable guy, and one i wouldn't want to be cheering for tbh.
A little bit rich from someone with a username like yours.
I must be missing something.... He has a username that takes the piss out of the sad side of an otherwise great player. Then criticises the shameful past of another player. Seems pretty consistent to me. If he was called SuarezIsGod the fair enough but even then... Has everyone really become super sensitive here all of a sudden?
I agree, things seem to be kicking off on here left right and centre for no reason.

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Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by The Username »

Saw the game on Saturday and very impressed with Gray in the 6.5 slot. He's very isolated going forward and I think because of that lost to many processions for BPs.

Burnley in general were very good especially at the back.

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Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by Weisenwolf »

Tall Paul wrote:
eastcentral1 wrote:If his tweets were current, then he would almost certainly face a suspension from the FA (like Huth last year). However, as you say, it would be surprising if the FA took action for tweets from 4 years ago.

On the other hand, in contrast to you, I would be disappointed if he doesn''t face any sanction. 1. The tweets are absolutely beyond the pale. These aren't those kind of tweets that are simply politically incorrect. They are hateful and arguably inciting hate. People face criminal charges for similar. 2. It wasn't like he was a teenager or a kid when he made them. 3. There were a number of them, not just a tweet or two. *

I would like to see his employer punish him. At the very least, he has brought his employer into disrepute.


*EDIT: Reading more into this, it's not clear how many tweets there were, nor how many were as bad as the one that is being widely quoted. So perhaps point 3 is moot.
He was just 20 when the widely quoted tweet was made, so pretty much a kid. I'm not sure who his employer was at the time, but he was playing for Hinckley Utd. Do you think it would be fair if your employer punished you or something you did 3 years before they employed you?

As I already said, these tweets must have been in the public domain for 4 years and he's been a professional footballer for most of that time, why have they only come to light now?
Sorry but 20 years old is not a child; neither does it matter that he was only playing for Hinkley. If a 20 year old Premiership player made those comments he would be charged by the FA and so should he be now that they have been brought to the FA's attention. How can football claim zero tolerance for these offences and do nothing?

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Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by scarletjim »

Tall Paul wrote:As for Gray's tweets, I'd be very surprised and disappointed if the PL/FA can punish him for something he did 4 and a half years ago.
Hmmm well he wouldn't be the first A. Gray to suffer such a strange course of events... Don't we all remember Andy Gray being told 'You've said something sexist on TV, so that's an official warning, and if you do it again you're fired. And by the way, we know that you did do it again, many years ago, so there you go, you're fired'. Basically being fired for breaking a warning that was made after the event that broke it. Utter madness. So nothing should surprise us any more... :(

As for 'modern day A Gray', is it possible that he is a reformed character? If so, I say that apologising and deleting the tweets should be the end of it. Perhaps a charitable donation might be wise on his part too. And if he really is a scumbag deep down, I'm sure that will come through in his current behaviour at some point (on or off the field).
Last edited by scarletjim on 22 Aug 2016, 11:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by CR9 »

The Real Slim Shady wrote:They probably saw his tweets :lol:
If you got BP deucted for being a filthy, vile excuse for a human being, Luis Suarez would actually owe FPL for his time at Liverpool.

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Re: RE: Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by eastcentral1 »

scarletjim wrote:
Tall Paul wrote:As for Gray's tweets, I'd be very surprised and disappointed if the PL/FA can punish him for something he did 4 and a half years ago.
Hmmm well he wouldn't be the first A. Gray to suffer such a strange course of events... Don't we all remember Andy Gray being told 'You've said something sexist on TV, so that's an official warning, and if you do it again you're fired. And by the way, we know that you did do it again, many years ago, so there you go, you're fired'. Basically being fired for breaking a warning that was made after the event that broke it. Utter madness. So nothing should surprise us any more... :(

As for 'modern day A Gray', is it possible that he is a reformed character? If so, I say that apologising and deleting the tweets should be the end of it. Perhaps a charitable donation might be wise on his part too. And if he really is a scumbag deep down, I'm sure that will come through in his current behaviour at some point (on or off the field).
If you really were reformed, you would probably realise how inappropriate your tweets were, and at the very least delete them or more likely publicly disown them. He did neither until caught out. The fact is he allowed these tweets to remain published in his name until others made a fuss. If his excuse for that is that he forgot about them, then that just demonstrates how little he grasps the nature of what he has said. Most decent people would remember if they said something like that, and would take steps upon being "reformed".

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Re: RE: Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by Tall Paul »

eastcentral1 wrote:If you really were reformed, you would probably realise how inappropriate your tweets were, and at the very least delete them or more likely publicly disown them. He did neither until caught out. The fact is he allowed these tweets to remain published in his name until others made a fuss. If his excuse for that is that he forgot about them, then that just demonstrates how little he grasps the nature of what he has said. Most decent people would remember if they said something like that, and would take steps upon being "reformed".
So we think he's a liar as well as a homophobe now?

It's entirely plausible that he forget these tweets still existed until they were brought back up this weekend. In that case he's been a bit naive, but it certainly doesn't mean that he still holds those views.

In fact, one of his high profile team mates from last season has said:
You all know how much work I have done for and with the gay community. And I wouldn't call someone who was homophobic my friend. AG is mine.
I'm pretty sure he knows Gray's character better than someone judging it from a few 4 year old tweets.

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Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by baganboy »

Tall Paul wrote: Yes, the tweets are worrying, but they've been there for 4 and a half years, why have they only just come to light today. It wouldn't be a bitter scouse journo digging them up would it?
Wait for just a minute.
I know that this has nothing to do with FPL, but this needs to be said. Please delete, mods, if you see fit.
The post was not there for 4 and a half years, ANDRE GREY WROTE THEM ONCE, AND KEPT THEM IN HIS FEED FOR 4 AND A HALF YEARS.
Sorry for the caps.
He says that he is not the same man as he was 4 years back, and that is completely fair. I had said some pretty disgusting things when I was 21. I was a silly young boy, as I am sure Grey was. I would delete if there was facebook in those days and I had put it there. I would definitely not call it fake contrition, but I would certainly call it stupid negligence. All this media vitriol is well deserved, I say.
Nothing to do with bonus points, mind.

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Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by Tall Paul »

baganboy wrote:The post was not there for 4 and a half years
Yes it was.
ANDRE GREY WROTE THEM ONCE, AND KEPT THEM IN HIS FEED FOR 4 AND A HALF YEARS.
Sorry for the caps.
He says that he is not the same man as he was 4 years back, and that is completely fair. I had said some pretty disgusting things when I was 21. I was a silly young boy, as I am sure Grey was. I would delete if there was facebook in those days and I had put it there. I would definitely not call it fake contrition, but I would certainly call it stupid negligence. All this media vitriol is well deserved, I say.
Nothing to do with bonus points, mind.
Already addressed by Eastcentral at the top of this page, which I agreed was a fair point.

I'm not sure who this Andre Grey is that you're talking about though. Maybe he is homophobic and this has all been a case of mistaken identity.

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Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by eastcentral1 »

Yes, I think the FA should simply make it clear that players should be aware that anything which is currently or recently published by them is relevant, no matter when it was first posted. If, for example, he had put this on his personal website 4 years ago but left it there, there would be no argument. He had the opportunity to delete, or even better, recant on those tweets, but never did so.

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Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by scarletjim »

baganboy wrote:The post was not there for 4 and a half years, ANDRE GREY WROTE THEM ONCE, AND KEPT THEM IN HIS FEED FOR 4 AND A HALF YEARS.
I don't understand the point you are trying to make - what's the difference? He wrote the tweets 4.5 years ago, and they are still there. Sorry if I'm being thick. :?

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Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by baganboy »

As opposed to people suggesting that 'oh the media dug up something he wrote 4 years ago', it's a case of 'he wrote something 4 years ago and left it (and did not delete) for 4 years in a social media device he uses regularly'.
That might not indict him for homophobia right now (as I mentioned, I do believe that he's contrite), but that is certainly extreme negligence.

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Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by baganboy »

As someone has mentioned already, it is pretty disgusting stuff. Not banter, but real hate-speech.

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Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by CR9 »

I'd rather talk about Sasha Grey :)

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Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by blahblah »

The question is: is he contrite as he his a Prem footballer, or has he had some sort of epiphany and is no longer homophobic\racist\misogynist?

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Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by Tall Paul »

blahblah wrote:The question is: is he contrite as he his a Prem footballer, or has he had some sort of epiphany and is no longer homophobic\racist\misogynist?
You don't need an epiphany, it's just part of growing up and becoming better educated.

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Re: RE: Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by scarletjim »

Tall Paul wrote:
eastcentral1 wrote:If you really were reformed, you would probably realise how inappropriate your tweets were, and at the very least delete them or more likely publicly disown them. He did neither until caught out. The fact is he allowed these tweets to remain published in his name until others made a fuss. If his excuse for that is that he forgot about them, then that just demonstrates how little he grasps the nature of what he has said. Most decent people would remember if they said something like that, and would take steps upon being "reformed".
So we think he's a liar as well as a homophobe now?

It's entirely plausible that he forget these tweets still existed until they were brought back up this weekend. In that case he's been a bit naive, but it certainly doesn't mean that he still holds those views.
That's pretty much how I see it. We seem to be assuming that he must be either 'good' or 'evil' - can't he plausibly be something in between? In other words, perhaps he doesn't think those things now, but perhaps he doesn't really care if anyone else thinks similar things, perhaps he no longer has any strong opinions on such things, and as such, it may not have occurred to him to bother to go back and delete old tweets - he may think it's an unnecessary waste of time. Now whether you or I agree with that, it doesn't make him 'evil' right now, maybe just naive and insensitive.

God help me if my employer ever decided to discipline me because of inappropriate things I've written on Facebook over the years (not racist, homophobic or anything like that, but lots of swearing, jokes in poor taste etc). But yes before anyone says it, I know that is very different and here the implication was that he meant genuine harm to certain groups.
baganboy wrote:As opposed to people suggesting that 'oh the media dug up something he wrote 4 years ago', it's a case of 'he wrote something 4 years ago and left it (and did not delete) for 4 years in a social media device he uses regularly'.
Aha ok I see the point now. Yes, and 'extreme negligence' is probably a pretty fair assessment.

EDIT: Btw, I've just realised we've ruined the OP's thread somewhat. Mods might want to separate this into a 'Andre Gray tweets' thread, if anyone thinks it necessary. Perhaps not though, the original questions were answered as far as anyone could possibly explain anyway... :)

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Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by Weisenwolf »

I have no issue with the fact that he states he was wrong to write those words and is not the same man now. That and the age of the tweets certainly mitigates the action to some degree. However this isn't a 'silly little boy' making an inappropriate comment in the heat of the moment. This is a 20 year old adult making unsolicited abusive comments who has had 4 1/2 years to remove them or denounce them and has not done so. And these are criminal offences (S4&5 public order Act if memory serves) and the more serious 'aggravated' versions too.

I bet it wouldn't just be seen as a child being silly if it was MP Mhairi Black who was 20 when she was elected or an 18 year old Police officer or anyone in fact who wasn't in an industry stuffed full of and surrounded by apologists with vested interests.

They shouldn't throw the book at him, he was a young man and has reacted immediately and appropriately but he shouldn't get away with it either; most of us wouldn't and he WAS an adult and subject to criminal law.

As for disrepute I wonder what football could do to become more disreputable :roll:

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Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by Resonare »

A leopard never changes it's spots. Gray, Vardy, Busquets; they are all the same kind of low level soap.

OT: I did watch the highlights and he gave the ball away quite a lot, and losing possession and missing chances = negative bps. Very useful info when it comes to a team like Arsenal who generate a lot of chances but miss a lot and therefore often have 2 defenders earning bps when they win 1 or 2-0.

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Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by scarletjim »

Weisenwolf wrote:...and these are criminal offences (S4&5 public order Act if memory serves) and the more serious 'aggravated' versions too.
In that case I guess I have to agree that some 'police action' should be taken. For me, it's not up to his club, or really the FA, to do anything - let the approprite people deal with it. Just my view of course.

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Re: A.Gray one goal and an assist yet is 4th place in the BPS. what.

Post by eastcentral1 »

FYI Robert Huth received a 2 match suspension, a fine and ordered to go on a course by the FA for replying to a series of "cock or no cock" tweets, in which people guessed whether photos showed men or women. The FA found him to be in breach of the following two rules:

Rule E3(1) “A participant shall at all times act in the best interests of the game and shall not act in any manner which is improper or brings the game into disrepute or use any one, or a combination of, violent conduct, serious foul play, threatening, abusive, indecent or insulting words or behaviour.”

Rule E3(2) “In the event of any breach of Rule E3(1) including a reference to any one or more of a person’s ethnic origin, colour, race, nationality, face, gender, sexual orientation or disability (an “aggravating factor”), a Regulatory Commission shall consider the imposition of an increased sanction.”

p.s. apologies for hijacking the thread.

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