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Price changes

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Stemania
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Re: Price changes

Post by Stemania »

So, having looked at FPLS's delta values I believe it can be confirmed that (according to Nigel at least) the current situation is indeed:
Stemania wrote: 1st rise in a week - need T net transfers in
2nd rise in a week - need 2T further net transfers in
3rd rise in a week - need 3T further net transfers in


where T is some fixed threshold of (according to FPLS) about 22k at this point in the season. (This threshold T is believed to alter throughout the season to take into account factors such as the number of active teams remaining I think.)
Stemania wrote: 1st drop in a week if price over starting price - need T net transfers out
2nd drop in a week if price over starting price - need T further net transfers out
3rd drop in a week if price over starting price - need T further net transfers out
Stemania wrote: 1st drop in a week if price equal to or below starting price - need roughly 10% of ownership in net transfers out
2nd drop in a week if price equal to or below starting price - need roughly 10% of ownership in further net transfers out
3rd drop in a week if price equal to or below starting price - need roughly 10% of ownership in further net transfers out
So, significantly there appear to be no multipliers at all for dropping players any more (thanks Troy Deeney for providing a key example). Though again, perhaps this has actually been the case for a few years now - I'm not entirely certain on that, and in view of the following I think it may have been (since the dramatic price drops for flagged players can be partially explained in another way):

Most significant of all - further digging appears to contravene an age old flagging multiplier rule. It used to be the case in the old days that all flags altered the price change thresholds for players to some degree, but according to the FPLS numbers it appears the new belief is that
'New' flag multiplying rules wrote:Yellow flags do not alter the price change thresholds in any way
Orange flags do not alter the price change thresholds in any way
Red flags roughly double every net transfer target
(Walcott, Evans, Coutinho, Pedro are key examples here)

This is very important and I believe could well be a major reason for all these harsh drops we're seeing. In the old days it was believed that a yellow flag multiplied all targets by about 1.25, and reds by around 2.5. It used to be that a popular player with a flag of any colour had fairly decent protection from the the mechanism - but it now appears that any player yellow flagged (say Coutinho at the time Mav was talking about) has no protection whatsoever and hence popular ones can drop like a stone. Plus those players red flagged look to have weaker protection than they did a few years back. :shock:

Again, I couldn't say with 100% certainty that this is new this season (it may just here a couple of years but that say last year the landscape just didn't lend itself to strongly exhibit these side effects), but I had a fun half an hour or so this morning nonetheless. :mrgreen: :lol:

*Caveat to above rules: The mechanism is (so far as I understand it) believed to be slightly different for players with very low ownership, say below 1%.

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Stemania
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Re: Price changes

Post by Stemania »

Just to complete the picture, I believe the current understanding on flag removal/protection is that
Flags and targets/protection wrote: Changing between flags does not effect net transfer targets (other than addition/removal of the red flag multiplier)
Yellow/orange to clear resets net transfer targets but does not result in price protection of any kind
Red to clear (direct) resets net transfer targets and player's price is protected for 8 days
Anyone please correct me on anything if anything looks dodgy. :D

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Re: Price changes

Post by blahblah »

Great stuff :D

Is the lack of Protection for non-Red Flags new?

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Stemania
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Re: Price changes

Post by Stemania »

blahblah wrote: Is the lack of Protection for non-Red Flags new?
Couldn't tell you for certain whether it's new this year (would have to ask Nigel or one of the other boffins). It definitely wasn't the case 4/5 years ago - but if you'd asked me yesterday what I thought the rule was for flags and targets I would not have said the above. New to me then anyway. :D

Edit: sorry, misread. I mean the flag multipliers may be new. Protection rules not.

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Re: Price changes

Post by blahblah »

Ditto: I assumed all were protected for 8 days.

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Re: RE: Re: Price changes

Post by Stemania »

blahblah wrote:Ditto: I assumed all were protected for 8 days.
Oh, the protection thing, sorry I misread. Yes, that's been the case for years and years. It's the lack of multipliers on yellow flags that's new to me.

Will test futher fpls deltas over the next few weeks to double check. :)

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Billy Bongo
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Re: Price changes

Post by Billy Bongo »

Is the protection 8 days or 9?
8 plus the day the flag comes off?
9 plus the day the flag comes off?
7 plus the flag comes off day making 8?
What time does protection start midnight on day flag is removed? Or instantly?

I need to know Rodwell's flag about to come off

sent from Tapatalk that can't do paragraphs properly

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Re: Price changes

Post by Stemania »

Ha, I don't think we know for certain it's still exactly 8 days (could be a week or more or less). As far as I understand it's long been guessed to be 8 days from the precise time the player was unflagged, but that's assuming fpl use a precise automated protection system rather than a guy in an office clicking something (perhaps unlikely).

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Billy Bongo
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Re: Price changes

Post by Billy Bongo »

Rodwell dead to me timing is everything

sent from Tapatalk that can't do paragraphs properly

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Re: Price changes

Post by blahblah »

I think you need to think in terms of nights (in the UK) as this is when the changes happen.

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Re: Price changes

Post by Billy Bongo »

I live for the day

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Re: Price changes

Post by Mav3rick »

Good detective work Stem. I too was under the impression that flags added in an extra coefficient to to T however it's not solely flags that have exhibited the behaviour (although FFS' issues with flagging this year will hardly have helped the picture in light of this information).

It really feels to me like the lack of coefficient on the second and third drop is the big factor, I'd have sworn that it was 2x and 3x last year for drops. However I also would defer that to an algorithm expert for a definitive view.

I don't quite follow the logic behind it being so much harder to rise quickly than to drop quickly. If I remember correctly then in the Suarez season it was just T transfers for every rise, and they changed that (back?) because it was too volatile. -T transfers for every drop means that to rise 3 times in a week requires twice as many transfers as to drop 3 times in a week, so if that is a defence against bandwagon transfers in (that focus NTIs) then I think there needs to be acknowledgement that there is now such a thing as a bandwagon OUT.
Last edited by Mav3rick on 31 Dec 2016, 13:58, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Price changes

Post by BobMem »

In pretty sure they removed the multiplier on successive drops at least 2 seasons ago. It does seem strange, but it's not new.

Would be interesting to calculate the net change in sum of player values. Ie does the total value of all the players slowly drop, because there are more drops than rises?

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Re: Price changes

Post by Gravelaine »

Who is supposed to rise tonight?

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Re: Price changes

Post by blahblah »

Alli Spurs M A 7.1 £8.2m 0 0
108.6

Snodgrass Hull M A 6 £5.6m 0 0
103.7

Grant Stoke G A 6.7 £4.3m 0 0
101.2

Barnes Burnley F A 1.8 £4.4m 0 0
100.7

Allen Stoke M A 13.1 £5.2m 0 419 98.1
Holgate Everton D A 4.1 £4.0m 0 426 98.1
Browning Everton D A 2.7 £3.9m 0 2103 90.6
Gray Burnley F A 3.5 £6.1m 0 3051 86.3
Ibrahimovic Man Utd F A 43.6 £11.6m 0 3338 85.0
Clyne Liverpool D A 12.4 £5.7m 0 4691 79.0


Big question mark against Barnes and Holgate and Zlatan is actually going down

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Re: Price changes

Post by Gravelaine »

blahblah wrote:Alli Spurs M A 7.1 £8.2m 0 0
108.6

Snodgrass Hull M A 6 £5.6m 0 0
103.7

Grant Stoke G A 6.7 £4.3m 0 0
101.2

Barnes Burnley F A 1.8 £4.4m 0 0
100.7

Allen Stoke M A 13.1 £5.2m 0 419 98.1
Holgate Everton D A 4.1 £4.0m 0 426 98.1
Browning Everton D A 2.7 £3.9m 0 2103 90.6
Gray Burnley F A 3.5 £6.1m 0 3051 86.3
Ibrahimovic Man Utd F A 43.6 £11.6m 0 3338 85.0
Clyne Liverpool D A 12.4 £5.7m 0 4691 79.0


Big question mark against Barnes and Holgate and Zlatan is actually going down
Thanks, who is supposed to drop?

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Re: Price changes

Post by blahblah »

http://www.fplstatistics.co.uk/ :wink:

Beware the low ownership players and remember there are WC's being played which do no count, but sites like this have issues detecting\accounting for.

This is why the likes of Holgate are unlikely to change, as they are WC fodder.

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Re: Price changes

Post by Joccki_10 »

Wow, managers are shifting Sanchez in serious numbers. His progress is -1,60% per hour according to FFFix and he's likely to drop tomorrow. Looks like I won't get him then since his game time against Bournemouth isn't assured and I could get him cheaper in a few days.

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Re: Price changes

Post by Finisher1 »

Joccki_10 wrote:Wow, managers are shifting Sanchez in serious numbers. His progress is -1,60% per hour according to FFFix and he's likely to drop tomorrow. Looks like I won't get him then since his game time against Bournemouth isn't assured and I could get him cheaper in a few days.
Seems like folks finally listen to me.

#SayNoToSanchez

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Re: Price changes

Post by Resonare »

Joccki_10 wrote:Wow, managers are shifting Sanchez in serious numbers. His progress is -1,60% per hour according to FFFix and he's likely to drop tomorrow. Looks like I won't get him then since his game time against Bournemouth isn't assured and I could get him cheaper in a few days.
I think it's mostly to do with Aguero playing Burnley at home tbh.

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Re: Price changes

Post by Weisenwolf »

Wildcarded for this week and my TV took a hammering as usual.

Interestingly though with the exception of 3 players who are locked (Aguero, Costa & Ake) & Valdes who is dropping slowly due to injury, the other 11 in my squad are gaining ownership so some of that lost TV will be quickly recovered.

Interesting feature of the economic model IMO

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Re: Price changes

Post by Paulista »

Eriksen close to dropping. How dare he go one GW without returns.

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Re: Price changes

Post by Joccki_10 »

Anyone bother to reveal us some relevant, probable risers and fallers tonight?

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Re: Price changes

Post by tarkens »

sure

risers:

(already above 100%)
Phillips
Lallana
Daniels
Giroud
Holgate
Pogba
Clyne
Gray

(over 90% and rising)
Willian
Brunt
Lovren
Alli

fallers (FISO relevant):

Mane
Moses
Llorente
Chadli
Cedric (97% and falling)
Pickford (93.5%)

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Re: Price changes

Post by Joccki_10 »

Cheers. Seems like I've stayed out of trouble. :)

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eastcentral1
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Re: RE: Re: Price changes

Post by eastcentral1 »

Paulista wrote:Eriksen close to dropping. How dare he go one GW without returns.
Alli's exploits haven't helped

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Re: RE: Re: Price changes

Post by Weisenwolf »

eastcentral1 wrote:
Paulista wrote:Eriksen close to dropping. How dare he go one GW without returns.
Alli's exploits haven't helped
There are all sorts of reasons; I did Eriksen :arrow: Alli because Alli now looks better and allowed me Alonso :arrow: Bellerin and I think Bellerin was MOTM last GW. One scorpion kick, brilliant as it was, should not make a MOTM; Giroud did sod all else :roll:
Last edited by Weisenwolf on 02 Jan 2017, 23:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Price changes

Post by Weisenwolf »

Joccki_10 wrote:Anyone bother to reveal us some relevant, probable risers and fallers tonight?
Sorry its normally my job but Tarkens has done the business this week :wink:

Have you got the link Joccki?

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Re: Price changes

Post by Stevieste31 »

Chadli price fall a shame as WBA have good fixtures, its to be expected though as comes off early now and there not getting any pens for him to take

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Re: Price changes

Post by Football Hero »

Did Kane really just drop in price one day after a 16 point haul, (where only a piece of turf prevented him bagging a brace in the game prior to that too)?

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