Stones

[blahblah]

ssshh I'm trying to put people off.

Is it true that Wobbie didn't do any defensive training\work?

[The Catman]

Is it true that Wobbie didn't do any defensive training\work?

Well it didn't look like it!

[liquidfootball2]

Good signing for Joe Hart owners. Increased save points potential

Except Joe himself may be axed

Hate quoting myself

[Mav3rick]

So what did everyone think of city's defence?

[SuperGrover]

So what did everyone think of city's defence?

Hard to judge as Sunderland sat very deep and played for counter. On the goal they switched off but not sure if that will be a consistent problem. Certain they will improve with Kompany's leadership, but how good are they now? No idea.

i will say Caballero looked very shaky with the ball at his feet.

[liquidfootball2]

So what did everyone think of city's defence?

Pretty unimpressed, showed the same lack of concentration that was so prevalent last season. Sunderland hardly posed much threat and still scored. Obviously kolarov isn't a centre-half and players are out but so is the jury.

It just reminded me of so many displays last year when they would turn the most clearcut cleany by conceding late goals. A lot of work needs to be done but Old Trafford looking the place to get defenders for me. (until tomorrow perhaps )

[Droughton]

If you watch the build up to the Sunderland goal, Guardiola is screaming at Sterling when the throw-in is being taken to track back and double up on Januzaj. He doesn't and Januzaj cuts inside, pass, pass, John Stones strangely rushes out to close the ball down on the edge of the box and leaves a huge gap in behind himself - Defoe reacts immediately and makes a run into the space and the ball is threaded through.... goal. Relly Stones should defend where he is and let the DM/Spare man close the ball down... Rodwell is hardly renowned for his finishing ability. Lots of work yet to get to a solid unit

[SuperGrover]

So what did everyone think of city's defence?

Pretty unimpressed, showed the same lack of concentration that was so prevalent last season. Sunderland hardly posed much threat and still scored. Obviously kolarov isn't a centre-half and players are out but so is the jury.

It just reminded me of so many displays last year when they would turn the most clearcut cleany by conceding late goals. A lot of work needs to be done but Old Trafford looking the place to get defenders for me. (until tomorrow perhaps )

That's true, but understand they were tied for 3rd in CS last season so if they are like last season you are still talking about an elite defence. Also, funny to see you promote Man U. prior to them playing. Who knows how well they will actually play.

[liquidfootball2]

I'm impressed by Bailly and even without Smalling they looked good against Leicester.

José also has a reputation for good defensive sides by and large as his Chelsea showed bar last season's nightmare. Shaw fit and playing looks a real addition.

Its more what I expect than evidence at this stage though and I would expect Utds and possibly Chelsea's defence to be better.

City are looking to get a keeper but they weren't great last season and haven't brought in any defensively sound defenders. Stones will progress quickly under Guardiola and is a real talent with the potential to be one of the best, but he's far from the finished article now having suffered badly under the nightmare manager that was Martinez.

[SuperGrover]

I'm impressed by Bailly and even without Smalling they looked good against Leicester.

José also has a reputation for good defensive sides by and large as his Chelsea showed bar last season's nightmare. Shaw fit and playing looks a real addition.

Its more what I expect than evidence at this stage though and I would expect Utds and possibly Chelsea's defence to be better.

City are looking to get a keeper but they weren't great last season and haven't brought in any defensively sound defenders. Stones will progress quickly under Guardiola and is a real talent with the potential to be one of the best, but he's far from the finished article now having suffered badly under the nightmare manager that was Martinez.

Interesting as I thought Bailly looked horrible in the Shield game. Yeah he has skills, but he made multiple errors that set up goal scoring opps for the opponent. I wouldn't be surprised to see him benched in GW2 and see Mourinho go Blind-Smalling until he gets some consistency.

Also, as far as City "not great" last season, they were tied for 3rd in CS. To repeat, tied for third. That means only two teams were better. Yeah, maybe that's not as good people expect but it's still really good when juxtaposed with their competition. if they are only as good as last year, Stones will be an absolute steal assuming he starts consistently. A 5.0 on the 3rd best D in the league? Everyone will have him.

[liquidfootball2]

Also, as far as City "not great" last season, they were tied for 3rd in CS. To repeat, tied for third. That means only two teams were better

Well this is just plainly wrong

Leicester conceded 36
Arsenal conceded 36
Spurs conceded 35
City conceded 41
Utd conceded 35
Southampton conceded 41

So in fact of last years too six only Southampton in sixth conceded as many.

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/pr ... e/2015-16/

[Carlos Kickaball]

Also, as far as City "not great" last season, they were tied for 3rd in CS. To repeat, tied for third. That means only two teams were better

Well this is just plainly wrong

Leicester conceded 36
Arsenal conceded 36
Spurs conceded 35
City conceded 41
Utd conceded 35
Southampton conceded 41

So in fact of last years too six only Southampton in sixth conceded as many.

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/pr ... e/2015-16/

That's a list of goals conceded, not a list of clean sheets...

[Mav3rick]

Also, as far as City "not great" last season, they were tied for 3rd in CS. To repeat, tied for third. That means only two teams were better

Well this is just plainly wrong

Leicester conceded 36
Arsenal conceded 36
Spurs conceded 35
City conceded 41
Utd conceded 35
Southampton conceded 41

So in fact of last years too six only Southampton in sixth conceded as many.

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/pr ... e/2015-16/

It's a tricky one to call and depends rather on what you place the most emphasis. Last season in terms of expected goals conceded, city were 2nd in the league behind only Spurs (and not by much).

But they did concede quite a lot of actual goals which could have been down to individual mistakes or just bad luck. Hard to know without looking at every goal.

The thing that worries me isn't that they won't repeat or better last year, it's that they will be worse! I know that the system is bedding in and they apparently now require a new keeper, but premier league managers and strikers aren't daft and when they see (what I would call extreme) strategies in defence like citys, then they, like Defoe did, will exploit the holes and mistakes while the team is learning how to apply it properly.

What I did like from an FPL perspective was the way stones was stepping forward and getting involved in the game. Whether that translates to BPs or not I don't know (will he actually lose out on things like % passes completed for example).

[Glenjamin]

Also, as far as City "not great" last season, they were tied for 3rd in CS. To repeat, tied for third. That means only two teams were better

Well this is just plainly wrong

Leicester conceded 36
Arsenal conceded 36
Spurs conceded 35
City conceded 41
Utd conceded 35
Southampton conceded 41

So in fact of last years too six only Southampton in sixth conceded as many.

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/pr ... e/2015-16/

That's goals against. Not clean sheets.

Man u 18
Arsenal 18
City 16

[liquidfootball2]

Also, as far as City "not great" last season, they were tied for 3rd in CS. To repeat, tied for third. That means only two teams were better

Well this is just plainly wrong

Leicester conceded 36
Arsenal conceded 36
Spurs conceded 35
City conceded 41
Utd conceded 35
Southampton conceded 41

So in fact of last years too six only Southampton in sixth conceded as many.

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/pr ... e/2015-16/

That's goals against. Not clean sheets.

Man u 18
Arsenal 18
City 16

OK sorry I missed the cs bit and read as third best defence. It does however show they were some way off Spurs, Utd, Leicester and Arsenal in terms of their defence and that confirms the impression I had of them.

[blahblah]

Bit harsh judging their defence with only 1 CB in the XI, but it was Sunderland....

[Weisenwolf]

If you watch the build up to the Sunderland goal, Guardiola is screaming at Sterling when the throw-in is being taken to track back and double up on Januzaj. He doesn't and Januzaj cuts inside, pass, pass, John Stones strangely rushes out to close the ball down on the edge of the box and leaves a huge gap in behind himself - Defoe reacts immediately and makes a run into the space and the ball is threaded through.... goal. Relly Stones should defend where he is and let the DM/Spare man close the ball down... Rodwell is hardly renowned for his finishing ability. Lots of work yet to get to a solid unit

Stones is renown for this sort of recklessness and the pundits are always saying that he will learn but he does not appear to do so.

[froog]

I'm impressed by Bailly and even without Smalling they looked good against Leicester.

José also has a reputation for good defensive sides by and large as his Chelsea showed bar last season's nightmare. Shaw fit and playing looks a real addition.

Its more what I expect than evidence at this stage though and I would expect Utds and possibly Chelsea's defence to be better.

City are looking to get a keeper but they weren't great last season and haven't brought in any defensively sound defenders. Stones will progress quickly under Guardiola and is a real talent with the potential to be one of the best, but he's far from the finished article now having suffered badly under the nightmare manager that was Martinez.

Interesting as I thought Bailly looked horrible in the Shield game. Yeah he has skills, but he made multiple errors that set up goal scoring opps for the opponent. I wouldn't be surprised to see him benched in GW2 and see Mourinho go Blind-Smalling until he gets some consistency.

Also, as far as City "not great" last season, they were tied for 3rd in CS. To repeat, tied for third. That means only two teams were better. Yeah, maybe that's not as good people expect but it's still really good when juxtaposed with their competition. if they are only as good as last year, Stones will be an absolute steal assuming he starts consistently. A 5.0 on the 3rd best D in the league? Everyone will have him.

really? general consensus was that he had a great game. think he even got man of the match.

[liquidfootball2]

Bit harsh judging their defence with only 1 CB in the XI, but it was Sunderland....

I don't think anyone is, I said the jury is still out (as it has to be with nothing really to judge it on). The only thing we have is last year and first impressions, so maybe they will be better this year but I think Utd were good last year and could be even better.

For me City look to have more options going forward but Utds defence is potentially better especially when they eventually get Smalling back.

[blahblah]

Definitely regarding MU, they should be very tight, despite Fellaini appearing to be a Jose favourite.

I would guess the "regular" Citeh defence will have a different: GK (not Hart), at least one FB and a CB.

[SuperGrover]

I'm impressed by Bailly and even without Smalling they looked good against Leicester.

José also has a reputation for good defensive sides by and large as his Chelsea showed bar last season's nightmare. Shaw fit and playing looks a real addition.

Its more what I expect than evidence at this stage though and I would expect Utds and possibly Chelsea's defence to be better.

City are looking to get a keeper but they weren't great last season and haven't brought in any defensively sound defenders. Stones will progress quickly under Guardiola and is a real talent with the potential to be one of the best, but he's far from the finished article now having suffered badly under the nightmare manager that was Martinez.

Interesting as I thought Bailly looked horrible in the Shield game. Yeah he has skills, but he made multiple errors that set up goal scoring opps for the opponent. I wouldn't be surprised to see him benched in GW2 and see Mourinho go Blind-Smalling until he gets some consistency.

Also, as far as City "not great" last season, they were tied for 3rd in CS. To repeat, tied for third. That means only two teams were better. Yeah, maybe that's not as good people expect but it's still really good when juxtaposed with their competition. if they are only as good as last year, Stones will be an absolute steal assuming he starts consistently. A 5.0 on the 3rd best D in the league? Everyone will have him.

really? general consensus was that he had a great game. think he even got man of the match.

Yeah i seem to be in the minority there but I thought he really struggled with Vardy's pace. He also made a couple questionable decisions that lead directly to chances (some half chances, but chances none the less). No question the kid has talent but that was a bit worrisome to me. We'll find out if Mourinho agrees at all once Smalling is back.

[SuperGrover]

Bit harsh judging their defence with only 1 CB in the XI, but it was Sunderland....

I don't think anyone is, I said the jury is still out (as it has to be with nothing really to judge it on). The only thing we have is last year and first impressions, so maybe they will be better this year but I think Utd were good last year and could be even better.

For me City look to have more options going forward but Utds defence is potentially better especially when they eventually get Smalling back.

I don't think there is any question that United will most likely have a better defence than City, but I also think is most likely it will be pretty close. The fact Stones is a starter at 5.0 for what will almost certainly be one of the top defenses in the league makes him a steal.

[liquidfootball2]

Yes I agree on Stones I have him myself and think most teams I've seen do too

[Bertie64]

It'll be interesting to see how City's defence pans out as Pep's playing systems get more embedded into the minds of the players.

Will they be a good defensive unit? Almost certainly.
I'm not as convinced they will be a 'set-and-forget' defence like the Arsenal (of ages ago, yawn...) or more recent Chelsea and Man U teams.
But I'm also not really sure such a thing exists any more in EPL. Obviously we still have to see with Chelsea this season but maybe this Man U side is as close as it gets and they aren't rock solid either.

All the top sides look much more about going forwards and I think on many occasions there will be other defenders from lesser fancied teams that offer better chances of the CS in any given week.

At 5m Stones fits the bill perfectly for me and the low expectation of attacking returns means I won't mind benching him one bit if I think there is a better option.
A 6m or 6.5m defender you more or less have to play every week to make sure you get the benefit of the attacking points if/when they come. Until we see a bit more of what Pep's new methods mean for them I would not want one of those from City.

As long as he features in Pep's side he will be in my 15, and in the near term be starting most/all games for me.
I can't see anyone else at the price who could be considered a better bet right now.

[Gambit]

so, what do people think now after two games?

clearly first choice, which is good, but I've not been convinced by City defensively (and they haven't played top teams), from a defensive point of view I don't like how the full backs push right into the centre midfield areas, a couple of times today they were horribly exposed but Stoke didn't possess enough pace to take advantage.

With West Ham, United, Spurs, Everton in the next 6 matches I can't see too many clean sheets even if City win the games.

I'm thinking of maybe swapping out if I don't get any pressing issues, looking at the next few weeks and I think the likes of Chelsea, Everton, or even Palace have fixtures that look more suited to clean sheets?

Or is he better just to keep and bench him instead, don't really want 5m on the bench though?

[blahblah]

Pep's 4-1-4-1 isn't doing it for me, and I jettisoned him with the WC.

[Razorback]

He's a hold for me ATM, having trouble justifying starting him next week though...

[blahblah]

And then the Manxland Derby - which could get very messy if Pep goes 4-1-4-1.

[liquidfootball2]

Hold until I wildcard early and perhaps a little after, not a set and forget as still liable to make poor judgements and be caught out of position.

I do think he's a Guardiola type defender though as his attributes of comfortable on the ball, bringing it out and seeing a pass are ideal for his style. Perhaps City's best form of defence will be to keep the ball and dominate possession and Stones fits this way too.

[Gambit]

have been reading the injury rumours regarding West Ham, if they turn out to be true I will keep Stones for this week as West Ham (h) could provide a good chance of a clean sheet. Will see how they look this afternoon.

I do agree that Stones will be a Pep favourite, it's just that I can see more clean sheet potential at other teams and I'm loathe to have a 5m defender benched every other week