Completely bang onThe Libero wrote:Zlatan at 11.5m at the start of the season looks good value...if Aguero does what he usually does he will end up creeping up to 13.6 or so and I wouldn't be surprised if Zlatan goes up to 12.5m over time.
Which will have an interesting effect on the template team dynamic, because many of us will be spending a lot of money on 2 super premium strikers, and those of us who had them since the start of the season will be reluctant to swap them due to their high buy-back price. Even more interesting if Hazard returns to forum and Sanchez stays fit. It will mean cheap enablers become really important because people will need multiple bargain midfielders. The likes of Gaston Ramirez, Snodgrass, potentially Demarai Gray if he is a Leicester regular, Capoue, may end up with high ownership.
Also could result in the likes of Kane, Lukaku, Vardy, Costa becoming differentials as they become hard to fit in a template with Aguero & Zlatan unless you make real compromises elsewhere.
Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
Ibra's still not worth it until the end of this GW. If he hadn't been the one to take the penalty, and had ended up with the 1 goal vs say, Rondon or Negredo or another striker also 2 for 2?
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
@JVRB48: Yep, I WC'ed and went for Costa as "third" striker, and have 2m in the bank, but the midfield is a tad cheap.
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
I disagree: it is about how MU are playing and that they are MU not WBA etc.Owsler wrote:Ibra's still not worth it until the end of this GW. If he hadn't been the one to take the penalty, and had ended up with the 1 goal vs say, Rondon or Negredo or another striker also 2 for 2?
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
But he did take the penalty. Ibra on pens, coupled with his increasingly high ownership, is looking increasingly difficult to ignore.Owsler wrote:Ibra's still not worth it until the end of this GW. If he hadn't been the one to take the penalty, and had ended up with the 1 goal vs say, Rondon or Negredo or another striker also 2 for 2?
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
Is he still worth it if say Kaka, Negredo, Vardy, Diomande & Costa all get hat tricks?Canary94 wrote:But he did take the penalty. Ibra on pens, coupled with his increasingly high ownership, is looking increasingly difficult to ignore.Owsler wrote:Ibra's still not worth it until the end of this GW. If he hadn't been the one to take the penalty, and had ended up with the 1 goal vs say, Rondon or Negredo or another striker also 2 for 2?
Extreme I know but I think that's Owslers point; he won't be worth it until we know what everyone else will do.
In fact not even then as they may all get hat tricks next week and Ibra may get sent off so we still don't know until the end of the season
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
I'm wondering if ibrahimovic INSTEAD OF aguero is a not-so-silly-move at this stage given the price difference and how that could be spent elsewhere.
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
TBH I would think anyone over 10m needs to be on penalties to truly justify the price tag. Especially a forward. The potential extra 20 points+ justifies the extra 1m+ that you are paying for them. It's also partly why the likes of Costa, Lukaku and Giroud are cheaper. Vardy sticks out like a sore thumb in that company I suppose.
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
It didn't take a genius to know that Zlatan was a great player so some of the claims of great foresight on here are a bit much, but before the season started there were some questions that suggested pausing before spending 11.5m when you could get proven scorers like Kane, Vardy and Lukaku more cheaply than a 34 year old new to the PL.
- Will he adapt to the PL or will he be a Shevchenko type player whose game just didn't suit England?
- Will he be a starter and play 90 mins every week or is Mourinho looking to use him like he used Drogba when he brought him back to Chelsea?
- Will United be more creative or will Mourinho turn them in to a 0-0, 1-0 machine where the main outlet could be the 5-points a goal Martial at 9.5m?
- Will Zlatan be on penalties?
On the evidence we have seen so far, those doubts are receding fast which means you start to look at Zlatan doing what Zlatan does every where he goes.
There are other potential upsides still to come as when Mkhitaryan and Pogba get settled in United might be scoring even more goals and there is Zlatan's assist potential. In 4 seasons in the French league his assists total was 8, 11, 6, 13. As comparison in Payet's last 4 seasons in French league he got 6,13,5,16 so its not too different.
Aguero is 1.5m more than Zlatan, but factor in Aguero's CL commitments and injury record and I wouldn't be surprised if Zlatan outscores him over the season.
- Will he adapt to the PL or will he be a Shevchenko type player whose game just didn't suit England?
- Will he be a starter and play 90 mins every week or is Mourinho looking to use him like he used Drogba when he brought him back to Chelsea?
- Will United be more creative or will Mourinho turn them in to a 0-0, 1-0 machine where the main outlet could be the 5-points a goal Martial at 9.5m?
- Will Zlatan be on penalties?
On the evidence we have seen so far, those doubts are receding fast which means you start to look at Zlatan doing what Zlatan does every where he goes.
There are other potential upsides still to come as when Mkhitaryan and Pogba get settled in United might be scoring even more goals and there is Zlatan's assist potential. In 4 seasons in the French league his assists total was 8, 11, 6, 13. As comparison in Payet's last 4 seasons in French league he got 6,13,5,16 so its not too different.
Aguero is 1.5m more than Zlatan, but factor in Aguero's CL commitments and injury record and I wouldn't be surprised if Zlatan outscores him over the season.
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
Tricky one. He's started well. After just 2 games, it's not conclusive yet whether he'll continue to match the proven Aguero stride for stride. Neither are worth their prices if you're not captaining which probably makes having both a little silly long term. Ibra is an obvious fall-back when Aguero gets injured too. Going the other way not so easy if Ibra gets injured or Mourinho decides to start his 1-0s. In hindsight obviously now it's clear we should have all started with both!
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
Imagine if he performs something like Aguero (no C.League either); then sub 12mn would seem very cheap.Sutter Kane wrote:Neither are worth their prices if you're not captaining which probably makes having both a little silly long term.
I have scanned the fixtures too; there are a fair few times I'd captain the Swede over Aguero, perhaps 30:70 so maybe I was too swift to rule out having both. Then again it's that 30% that Kun runs riot no doubt!!
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
Funny how everyone that doubted him are already on the bandwagon after 2 weeks
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
Why?The Real Slim Shady wrote:Funny how everyone that doubted him are already on the bandwagon after 2 weeks
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
Whatever tickles you I guess.The Real Slim Shady wrote:Funny how everyone that doubted him are already on the bandwagon after 2 weeks
Frankly, some of the comments in the last 48 hours I just find bizarre. As if people who didn't have Ibra were in some way ignorant of the player he is and what he is capable of. What people where trying to weigh up was whether he was worth such a large the outlay from the very start and whether he fits their squad profile and cash allocation.
And as regards getting on bandwagons; that's the name of the game for most of us isn't it?
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
I'm getting him as he is on pens, which we didn't know before. I think that makes the difference for me at this point. Do I think he's as good as Kun...no I don't. Do I think he's a pretty handy goal poacher for an elderly gent, yes he is.
Many are getting him because he's on good form. He won't score 3 goals every 2 games all season so it's a nice form start for him that's nice to roll with for now. I highly doubt he stays in my team all season but I'll cross that bridge whenever...
Many are getting him because he's on good form. He won't score 3 goals every 2 games all season so it's a nice form start for him that's nice to roll with for now. I highly doubt he stays in my team all season but I'll cross that bridge whenever...
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
Started with him as I figured easier to ship out than fund in if he started well. He did. He stays
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
No he won't. But he might very well score 2 every 3 games because he is miles better than most defences/defenders in the league, on pens, has toupee-rooney and others deliver him complete service and he is NOT made of wet cardboard like Carroll. Calling him "an elderly gent" is a bit harshSutter Kane wrote:I'm getting him as he is on pens, which we didn't know before. I think that makes the difference for me at this point. Do I think he's as good as Kun...no I don't. Do I think he's a pretty handy goal poacher for an elderly gent, yes he is.
Many are getting him because he's on good form. He won't score 3 goals every 2 games all season so it's a nice form start for him that's nice to roll with for now. I highly doubt he stays in my team all season but I'll cross that bridge whenever...
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
He's not far off Terry's age and Jose thought he was pretty much over the hill. He's on fire so he's probably not a bad pick but to suggest he is anything other than ageing (for a premier league striker) is daft. I would be surprised if he starts every week. He won't need to and Jose is not exactly Mr Risk. Lack of Europe helps him a lot but i really don't see him starting more than 75% if games over the season.Ironfist wrote:No he won't. But he might very well score 2 every 3 games because he is miles better than most defences/defenders in the league, on pens, has toupee-rooney and others deliver him complete service and he is NOT made of wet cardboard like Carroll. Calling him "an elderly gent" is a bit harshSutter Kane wrote:I'm getting him as he is on pens, which we didn't know before. I think that makes the difference for me at this point. Do I think he's as good as Kun...no I don't. Do I think he's a pretty handy goal poacher for an elderly gent, yes he is.
Many are getting him because he's on good form. He won't score 3 goals every 2 games all season so it's a nice form start for him that's nice to roll with for now. I highly doubt he stays in my team all season but I'll cross that bridge whenever...
Doesn't make him a bad pick by the way. I just think that at his age he's more like to start 2 of every 3 than to score 2 in every 3 on average come the end of season. But the fact that it's never been done before doesn't mean that it can't be done. It just makes it unlikely.
He's not in my team yet and will probably only come in for Kun rather than alongside him. I favour Sutter Kane's initial evaluation of owning both. But I'm probably wrong.
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
The accepted wisdom in playing this game is to not trust "Carlos Kickaball" until he has proven himself. I often read statements like "How can Zlatan be a Carlos Kickaball" and the answer is - because he is. He is new to the Premier league. No one is rendering any questions over his previous pedigree; his mazy goal run for Ajax is still one of my favourite ever goals and he is quite possibly the 3rd greatest player of his generation (*Messi * Ronaldo). But we didnt know when the 34yr old from the French leagues came if he would cut it here; so many (Shevchenko, Veron, Deco, Kezman, Aquilani, Crespo, Van Der Meyde, Rebrov, Santa Cruz, Alfonso Alves, Mitroglou, Steve Marlet, Tomas Brolin, Francis Jeffers, Bosko Balaban, Stephane Guivarc'h) to name but a 'few' have failed. We've had our Zola's, our Klinnsmanns but they tend to be the exception rather than the rule.maradonash wrote:Whatever tickles you I guess.The Real Slim Shady wrote:Funny how everyone that doubted him are already on the bandwagon after 2 weeks
Frankly, some of the comments in the last 48 hours I just find bizarre. As if people who didn't have Ibra were in some way ignorant of the player he is and what he is capable of. What people where trying to weigh up was whether he was worth such a large the outlay from the very start and whether he fits their squad profile and cash allocation.
And as regards getting on bandwagons; that's the name of the game for most of us isn't it?
So putting him in was a gamble. It paid off for many - congrats. Now it is time for the wiley manager to think 'yep' he's showing what he can do; maybe time to put him in.
If this is to be found 'funny' then so be it.
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
Beerfuelledman wrote: Francis Jeffers
I take your point but Jeffers... £10mn back then was an absolute abomination.
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
Much though I don't like my username taken in vain, the Carlos Kickaball rule is very much one I observe regardless of what the player has done previously.
I originally wanted Lukaku but replaced him with Rooney when Lukaku wasn't certain to start the season. When I found out Ibrahimovic (and frustratingly not Rooney) was on penalties, I was initially annoyed and immediately looked at ways I could upgrade Rooney to him. I've since talked myself out of putting him in just yet, as 1. I still seriously question how long this run will last and 2. Purely a personal thing but my team would be so uninspiring with him and Aguero eating up so much of the budget. At this stage, I would rather have two of the proven Lukaku, Giroud and current form Rooney than an Ibrahimovic and, for example, Andre Gray, both of whom I'll more likely have to transfer out at some point due to form.
We all reserve the right to change our minds though. If you had Ibrahimovic from the start of the season, he scores 35 goals and you finish above me at the end, by all means laugh away but it's way too early to claim any superiority right now. Nothing is accepted wisdom after two games.
I originally wanted Lukaku but replaced him with Rooney when Lukaku wasn't certain to start the season. When I found out Ibrahimovic (and frustratingly not Rooney) was on penalties, I was initially annoyed and immediately looked at ways I could upgrade Rooney to him. I've since talked myself out of putting him in just yet, as 1. I still seriously question how long this run will last and 2. Purely a personal thing but my team would be so uninspiring with him and Aguero eating up so much of the budget. At this stage, I would rather have two of the proven Lukaku, Giroud and current form Rooney than an Ibrahimovic and, for example, Andre Gray, both of whom I'll more likely have to transfer out at some point due to form.
We all reserve the right to change our minds though. If you had Ibrahimovic from the start of the season, he scores 35 goals and you finish above me at the end, by all means laugh away but it's way too early to claim any superiority right now. Nothing is accepted wisdom after two games.
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
Well if you don't like it, just imagine how Carlos Kickaball feels.CarlosTheFinger wrote:Much though I don't like my username taken in vain
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
Exact same thought as you.Arhaych wrote:I can't see Ibrahimovic playing in the Europa League. Seems a perfect competition to use Rashford.
My own take on Ibra is that I'd love to have him and Aguero, but my midfield looks really weak if I do that.
Sticking with just Aguero, and if Ibra catches fire, then I'll bring him in with the inevitable Week 3/Week 4 wildcard.
I have Ibra, and no Aguero instead. Just can't afford to have both, otherwise midfielders take a big hit. To me, it just happens that both players over-performed in the first 2 weeks. The top scorer after 38 games will end up with 2X goals, which means they score 0.6-0.7 goals per game, not 1.5 goals per game. Having banked 22 pts each is extraordinary form, and shouldn't be expected to last for too many games.
My wildcard tactic is also to use around 3rd / 4th week, after the transfer window closes.
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
I'm guessing your thinking of Julio Santa Cruz, who never played for Blackburn in the end because otherwise that's a bit harsh, as Roque scored 19 goals in his first season for Blackburn, 4th top scorer behind only Ronaldo, Torres and Adebayor. Now Roque's second season and move to City, well that was pants!Beerfuelledman wrote:Santa Cruz
As for Ibra, I'm kicking myself for not having him at the start and worse, for not having the immediate funds to bring him in (I had left 1mil to upgrade Vardy to Kane). I excluded him purely because of price point, not ability.
I am curious what will happen when (if) he does stop starting games, will we see his price plummet? I'm guessing with his high ownership he will be in a lot of abandoned teams come a few weeks time.
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
I'm guessing your thinking of Julio Santa Cruz, who never played for Blackburn in the end because otherwise that's a bit harsh, as Roque scored 19 goals in his first season for Blackburn, 4th top scorer behind only Ronaldo, Torres and Adebayor. Now Roque's second season and move to City, well that was pants!Beerfuelledman wrote:Santa Cruz
As for Ibra, I'm kicking myself for not having him at the start and worse, for not having the immediate funds to bring him in (I had left 1mil to upgrade Vardy to Kane). I excluded him purely because of price point, not ability.
I am curious what will happen when (if) he does stop starting games, will we see his price plummet? I'm guessing with his high ownership he will be in a lot of abandoned teams come a few weeks time.
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
Is Ibra now a must have? Im stuck.
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
It all becomes a bit irrlevent now though, after this week everyone will have him, just like Aguero it becomes a dead position.
A more interesting debate now is the rest of your team and enablers that will be the difference to your GW score.
A more interesting debate now is the rest of your team and enablers that will be the difference to your GW score.
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
It's kind of sad, 24.5 for two dead positions is a bit too much. There's not much room for finding exciting differentials.The Username wrote:It all becomes a bit irrlevent now though, after this week everyone will have him, just like Aguero it becomes a dead position.
A more interesting debate now is the rest of your team and enablers that will be the difference to your GW score.
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
But there are/will be many different options in midfield and not a whole lot of budget left (i.e. De Bruyne vs Hazard vs Mahrez vs Payet vs Sanchez vs Mhikitaryan/Martial etc.) When a few inevitably hit form at the same time there be some tough decisions to make.
Not to mention the 3rd striker spot.
Not to mention the 3rd striker spot.
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Re: Ibrahimovic - 11.5 - worth it?
Owsler wrote:classic hindsightTranners wrote:Kinda feeling a bit sorry for the people who don't think Ibra is worth it, do you even watch football?
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