GW14 Captain

[eastcentral1]

Aguero. Time to hide behind the couch for 2/3 of you folks

+1

Landon Donovan captain?

[helmethead]

Probably Lukaku captain, but I may actually consider Kane - bang in form against a Chelsea side who have not been that solid. Admittedly they were much improved against Norwich but against a side who will press them high up I can potentially see a few goals in this game.

I'm not too worried about not owning Aguero this week - Southampton are fairly tight and are probably not going to roll over. Aguero may well get on the scoresheet but 1 goal wouldn't be a disaster for non-owners and chances of more are fairly small IMO. Next week on the other hand the sofa may well be in full use for hiding purposes.

[Impossible_United]

I'm in my big Dilemma. Keep captaining Lukaku who has worked just fine all the times i captained him till now or go with Aguero

[Incrediblewoody]

Southampton look fairly solid at the back, rarely conceding more than 1 or 2, with that in mind I think it's Lukaku for captain once again against the mighty Bournemouth.

[Ruth_NZ]

Not sure why ANYONE would want to put up Bolasie as a captain choice.

There's a simple answer to that - because this is a conversation about GW14 captains and I am considering him. I hope that doesn't offend you or put me in trouble with the Thought Police?

I also have Aguero (who I wouldn't even consider)

Care to expand on this?

I have done so in the Aguero thread.

I have Bolasie but the stats do worry me, I recently asked a big Bolasie fan Ruth_NZ if those stats worry him too, but I think he just ignored my observation because he only started to talk about Palace's fixtures.

I am not a big Bolasie fan, I just have him in my team. And fixtures are a big part of why. So I'll just put it all in one place and be done with it.

1. The decision to bring in Bolasie wasn’t dictated by stats. At least not by recent stats. Some FPL managers talk as if the last 4 GWs are the only measure of a player’s ability and prospects for some reason. Although in fact Bolasie rates 5th highest of all players for shots on target over the last 6 weeks, alongside Giroud, Barkley and Coutinho. The stats are actually not bad at all.

2. Palace have had a tough fixture run. The 9 games before Monday included MCI, WBA, MUN, Che, Tot, Wat, Liv, that’s 5 of last season’s top 6 teams plus others that are defensively pretty resilient. Pardew clearly put more emphasis on defensive solidity during that run and to good effect – Palace only scored 8 goals in those 9 games but they only conceded 8 goals as well and achieved some excellent results.

3. Palace now have a much better fixture run. In the 9 games from yesterday onwards they had SUN NEW eve SOT sto bou SWA CHE avl. It looks way better than the last 9 in terms of attacking prospects and I could see Palace reverting to a more attacking approach and scoring plenty. A Palace attacker looks a good idea for that run of games.

4. Bolasie had a disrupted start to the season through injury and the death of his father as well as multiple trips to Africa for international duty. The player himself feels he is over that now and coming into his best form again. 3 goals in 3 games (and important goals at that) prior to yesterday also suggest that is the case and he doesn't have an international game until March now.

5. Bolasie had 12 PL assists last season, 2nd only to Fabregas. He also led the Palace midfield on shooting stats. His conversion rate wasn’t great but he has reportedly been working on his finishing. In the absence of Wickham and Gayle he has been deployed as a false #9, a position that doesn't suit him any more than it does Raheem Sterling. Now Wickham is back he can revert to his favoured role as an attacking midfielder able to run at defences rather than having his back to goal.

6. Put all that together with the fact that Newcastle have one of the three worst defences in the PL by most measures and are particularly vulnerable in behind Janmaat (where Bolasie is likely to play) and it may be apparent why I think he is worth considering as a captain this coming weekend, for me at least. My most likely captain will be Lukaku, however, as I said originally.

[Finisher1]

The thing that would concern me about Bolasie is that he's only created 5 chances all season, and has only had 9 shots in the box all season. Doesn't look like captain material (or actually even pick material) to me tbh.

5. Bolasie had 12 PL assists last season, 2nd only to Fabregas. He also led the Palace midfield on shooting stats. His conversion rate wasn’t great but he has reportedly been working on his finishing. In the absence of Wickham and Gayle he has been deployed as a false #9, a position that doesn't suit him any more than it does Raheem Sterling. Now Wickham is back he can revert to his favoured role as an attacking midfielder able to run at defences rather than having his back to goal.

This season he has created 5 chances in 960 minutes. That is 190 minutes per one created chance, and that is an awful, awful, AWFUL statistic! You can't just ignore this stat because of poor fixtures, and what happened last season is hardly helping him at the moment. You can ask Hazard or Fabregas how much their heroics from last season have helped them to perform this season.

Stemania and I have been trying to tell you that you can't realistically expect him to assist, but you keep ignoring our view.

[Stemania]

He he, all I did was point out why he would worry me as a captain pick, I've no intention of being absorbed into an argument about it. (Those stats didn't include last night btw as my post was before the game, haven't looked at what he managed yesterday).

Poor RNZ is getting it from all sides in many threads atm, let's try and keep it all a bit less emotive and more good-willed shall we - he is still a fairly new poster after all.

[Ruth_NZ]

This season he has created 5 chances in 960 minutes. That is 190 minutes per one created chance, and that is an awful, awful, AWFUL statistic! You can't just ignore this stat because of poor fixtures, and what happened last season is hardly helping him at the moment. You can ask Hazard or Fabregas how much their heroics from last season have helped them to perform this season.

Stemania and I have been trying to tell you that you can't realistically expect him to assist, but you keep ignoring our view.

Yes, I am ignoring your view. I am allowed to do that, right? Same as everyone is free to ignore what I write, right?

You say that the stats say he won't be getting any assists. I say circumstances have changed and that last season's performance better indicates his actual potential. We'll just have to wait and see who is correct. But at 6.1 I don't have to be very right, do I? Even a bit right will do.

[Stemania]

As a long term cheap pick you don't have to be very right, no. But as a good captaincy option you probably do?

For me, i think it'll be some permutation of

Lukaku (c), Aguero (vc), Sanchez (vvc).

[Finisher1]

He he, all I did was point out why he would worry me as a captain pick, I've no intention of being absorbed into an argument about it. (Those stats didn't include last night btw as my post was before the game, haven't looked at what he managed yesterday).

Yesterday he played 96 minutes and created 0 chances.

This season he has created 5 chances in 960 minutes. That is 190 minutes per one created chance, and that is an awful, awful, AWFUL statistic! You can't just ignore this stat because of poor fixtures, and what happened last season is hardly helping him at the moment. You can ask Hazard or Fabregas how much their heroics from last season have helped them to perform this season.

Stemania and I have been trying to tell you that you can't realistically expect him to assist, but you keep ignoring our view.

Yes, I am ignoring your view. I am allowed to do that, right? Same as everyone is free to ignore what I write, right?

You are allowed to do that but it's not very wise. I think more regular FISO members can say I have generally well reasonable opinions and very often they prove to be the right ones after all.

[Ruth_NZ]

Poor RNZ is getting it from all sides in many threads atm, let's try and keep it all a bit less emotive and good-willed shall we - he is still a fairly new poster after all.

It's the same old story on every forum - express thoughts or approach things differently to the conventional wisdom and people get offended. I thought/hoped FISO was a bit more mature than that but hey ho, it's only an online forum.

As a long term cheap pick you don't have to be very right, no. But as a good captaincy option you probably do?

Hey, I only said I was considering him. Is that so outrageous? It seems that some people find the act of even considering a player like Bolasie as (c) offensive for some reason.

But you are right about risk/reward with captains. Lukaku will probably be mine as I believe I said all along. Palace and Bolasie would have had to do better last night for me to go that way.

[Carlos Kickaball]

I don't think people on here are offended RNZ, they just sometimes disagree; surely if you express a non consensus opinion, disagreement is what is expected.

[Finisher1]

As a long term cheap pick you don't have to be very right, no. But as a good captaincy option you probably do?

Hey, I only said I was considering him. Is that so outrageous? It seems that some people find the act of even considering a player like Bolasie as (c) offensive for some reason.

But you are right about risk/reward with captains. Lukaku will probably be mine as I believe I said all along. Palace and Bolasie would have had to do better last night for me to go that way.

I'm also not sure why you are thinking you don't have to be that right because it's just 6.1?

Of course you have to be, he is one of your eight attacking players and there are other relevant alternatives for that position.

[Ruth_NZ]

This season he has created 5 chances in 960 minutes. That is 190 minutes per one created chance, and that is an awful, awful, AWFUL statistic! You can't just ignore this stat because of poor fixtures, and what happened last season is hardly helping him at the moment. You can ask Hazard or Fabregas how much their heroics from last season have helped them to perform this season.

Stemania and I have been trying to tell you that you can't realistically expect him to assist, but you keep ignoring our view.

Yes, I am ignoring your view. I am allowed to do that, right? Same as everyone is free to ignore what I write, right?

You are allowed to do that but it's not very wise. I think more regular FISO members can say I have generally well reasonable opinions and very often they prove to be the right ones after all.

I come here to discuss stuff. I don't come here to have you tell me what to do with my team or to tell you what to do with yours.

I'm also not sure why you are thinking you don't have to be that right because it's just 6.1?

Because I don't need so many points from a 6.1 player as from a 9.0 player. I'd have thought that was self-evident.

[liquidfootball2]

Some early selected anytime scorer oddschecker odds - maybe some not quoted here as didn't look theirs up

Kun 19/20
Giroud evens
Lukaku 7/5
Sanchez 6/4
Kane 13/8
Firmino 7/4
Coutinho 19/10
Costa 2/1
KdB 21/10

There were others like Benteke and sturridge with short odds but not worth quoting for FPL captaincy as who knows whether they'll play, Bony too another.

FFS poll currently has

Lukaku 39.5%
Aguero 21.6%
Sanchez 9.5%
Kane 6.29%

The highest of the rest less than 4%

[Finisher1]

I'm also not sure why you are thinking you don't have to be that right because it's just 6.1?

Because I don't need so many points from a 6.1 player as from a 9.0 player. I'd have thought that was self-evident.

With his recent stats I think he will be very lucky to get a single assist actually. What I'm saying is that you can't expect him to assist, can you?

It might not matter that much if he can score. I always prefer goal scoring midfielders anyway.

[Ruth_NZ]

I don't think people on here are offended RNZ, they just sometimes disagree; surely if you express a non consensus opinion, disagreement is what is expected.

Not really CK. Not when I made an innocent post about who I was considering as captain next week and pandemonium has ensued. Clearly some are offended that I would even think such a thing and want to put me in my place.

Dazzler (in another thread) has given me a recitation of his finishing positions in OR (some seasons missed out so I guess they may not have been so good), Finisher is telling me that I should pay more attention to his views and opinions, Hayesag can't understand why anyone would "put up" such a ludicrous idea as Bolasie (c) as if the purpose of this forum is to reach consensus about the best players to have. That's not what it is for me. I will offer my thoughts and I will read what others say but I'm not interested in having my team (or captain) selected by a committee.

[Stemania]

Right, I think all this Bolasie captaincy discussion (and surrounding conversation) has run it's course now. Can we draw a line under it for now and get back to it being a regular GW14 Captaincy thread please? Two people who own Bolasie disagree on whether he's captain material (and have given their arguments). Let's move on.

FFS poll currently has

Lukaku 39.5%
Aguero 21.6%
Sanchez 9.5%

Exactly my order right now too.

[liquidfootball2]

A little footnote to my odds post may put the voting in a better context

Of the top 10k last week

65% played Lukaku

Aguero currently has overall ownership of under 15%

Probably between these two for me but waiting for the Champions league matches to be over as there could be doubts on Kun's minutes.

[NoEyeDeer]

Back to captain pick.

NoEyeDeer.

At the moment it's been filtered down to my front 7.

[hayesag]

5. Bolasie had 12 PL assists last season, 2nd only to Fabregas. He also led the Palace midfield on shooting stats.

2014/15 assist stats courtesy of espn.co.uk

Cesc Fabregas (Chelsea) 18
Santi Cazorla (Arsenal) 11
Chris Brunt (West Brom) 10
Angel Di Maria (Man United) 10
Gylfi Sigurdsson (Swansea) 10

so where is Bolasie then??

im guessing way down the table as he only managed 6 assists in 34 games!

and as far as palace shooting stats go, the only thing he was top of was shots OFF target
he was top for that but nothing else

really would love to know where you get ur info from

[Carlos Kickaball]

Probably FPL hayesag, as we're generally interested in FPL assists (which include things like saved shots, that are then put in) and not opta assists.

Goal Assist

The final pass or pass-cum-shot leading to the recipient of the ball scoring a goal.

Fantasy Goal Assist

From Summer 2013, Opta have started to collect a range of other assists used by fantasy football, but also available to clients to determine their own definition should they wish

Heavily deflected pass
Shot on target saved, rebound scored
Shot blocked rebound scored
Shot hit woodwork rebound scored
Penalty won
Free kick won by foul
Free kick instigated by forced handball
Instigating own goal through shot/pass

[Ruth_NZ]

5. Bolasie had 12 PL assists last season, 2nd only to Fabregas. He also led the Palace midfield on shooting stats.

Really would love to know where you get ur info from

FPL.

Bolasie 2014/15 Minutes: 2771 Goals: 4 Assists: 12 Clean Sheets: 6 YCards: 3 BPs: 8 Points: 132

[Pulpy]

Aguero for me assuming he comes through tomorrow unscathed.

With all this talk of Bolasie I feel I must now own up to captaining Wijnaldum last week. Don't do it to yourselves!

[zerinot]

right now i have Lukaku (c) Agüero (vc), main decider for me is the quality of the oppositions defence.
Southhampton has conceded 2 goals in their last 5 away games in the league, Bournemouth is the team that has let in most goals this season with 27.

[The Dazzler]

I don't think people on here are offended RNZ, they just sometimes disagree; surely if you express a non consensus opinion, disagreement is what is expected.

Not really CK. Not when I made an innocent post about who I was considering as captain next week and pandemonium has ensued. Clearly some are offended that I would even think such a thing and want to put me in my place.

Dazzler (in another thread) has given me a recitation of his finishing positions in OR (some seasons missed out so I guess they may not have been so good), Finisher is telling me that I should pay more attention to his views and opinions, Hayesag can't understand why anyone would "put up" such a ludicrous idea as Bolasie (c) as if the purpose of this forum is to reach consensus about the best players to have. That's not what it is for me. I will offer my thoughts and I will read what others say but I'm not interested in having my team (or captain) selected by a committee.

Lol, what are you pulling me into this for?
I gave Stemania, not you, a list of my finishes and it was actually in order to argue against his idea and support your idea of top 1k being achievable, or at least target worthy.
A side effect was assuaging my massive ego in listing my FPL achievements but primarily it was to support your idea.
And yes,the years I didn't mention are bad years. I don't think I'm infallible by any means.


People aren't offended by your ideas. Some people think your ideas are good. Some people think some of them are bad. It's not coz it's 'outside the box thinking', it's coz they think some of your ideas are bad. Very simple.
So they think Bolasie as a possible captain choice is bad.

Bolasie is in his 3rd season in the premier league.
In his first season iirc correctly, he was the player with the most shots without scoring a goal. In his 2nd season he scored 4 goals. 3 of those came in 1 game. This season he has scored 2 goals.
So in 70 premier league games, he has scored in 4 games. In his career he has 29 goals in 285 matches for a return of a goal every ~10 games. The historical stats suggest he's not a captain option.

Now, there are reasons to believe those stats don't accurately reflect his output going forward.
As you say, he has been working on his finishing. He is playing in a good side without a prolific CF, so the system requires a lot of the goals to come from the midfielders. He has scored a few recently. He certainly has good assist potential. So there is scope to believe he may improve on his historical output.
In fact Bolasie looks a fairly popular enabler for Aguero money. People have bought him, nearly 20k nett transfer in last week. And he was in the FFS Scout picks team of the week last week.
He's not someone who I was interested in but he was a reasonable option considering their fixtures.
What people are challenging and what is outside the box, is the idea that he is a reasonable captaincy option. Some people, myself included, think that's a bad idea. Not a ludicrous idea but I think you clearly have better options. That's my opinion. I'm not threatened by your opinion and I'm not offended. I just think it's a bad option in light of other options.

Discussion on here is not to reach consensus on the best players for everybody to have. It's to discuss the merits and drawbacks of various players and for people to make their own choices after that discussion.
If someone puts up a player that people think is a bad idea, expect the idea to be challenged.
If I put up an outside the box idea, I expect people to challenge it. We then debate it and hopefully we both arrive at a better understanding of the players merits.

[Ruth_NZ]

Discussion on here is not to reach consensus on the best players for everybody to have. It's to discuss the merits and drawbacks of various players and for people to make their own choices after that discussion.
If someone puts up a player that people think is a bad idea, expect the idea to be challenged.
If I put up an outside the box idea, I expect people to challenge it. We then debate it and hopefully we both arrive at a better understanding of the players merits.

Yes/no/yes/no...

I get the drift of your post and it is reasonable so I won't argue.

I guess it depends what you (and others) mean by "puts up a player".

I thought this was a thread inviting people to mention who they were considering as captain so I mentioned the 2 I'm looking at. To me I'm not "putting up" anything by doing so. Not in the sense of proposing to others. Very few will have Bolasie anyway to be honest.

When I wrote about Sanchez and the effects of various player combinations at Arsenal on his output I made a case in some depth. That was inviting discussion if others were interested. But when I happen to mention someone I'm considering as captain I don't think it's the same really. This post preceded mine:

Voted Bolasie why isn't Cabaye in the poll?

Fred only got 2 replies, one of which was me saying I was considering Bolasie too. And then it all kicked off, some of it a touch vitriolic, some of it a touch patronising. Let's say that I got more "constructive feedback" than I expected anyway.

[NoEyeDeer]

I don't think people on here are offended RNZ, they just sometimes disagree; surely if you express a non consensus opinion, disagreement is what is expected.

Not really CK. Not when I made an innocent post about who I was considering as captain next week and pandemonium has ensued. Clearly some are offended that I would even think such a thing and want to put me in my place.

Dazzler (in another thread) has given me a recitation of his finishing positions in OR (some seasons missed out so I guess they may not have been so good), Finisher is telling me that I should pay more attention to his views and opinions, Hayesag can't understand why anyone would "put up" such a ludicrous idea as Bolasie (c) as if the purpose of this forum is to reach consensus about the best players to have. That's not what it is for me. I will offer my thoughts and I will read what others say but I'm not interested in having my team (or captain) selected by a committee.

Lol, what are you pulling me into this for?
I gave Stemania, not you, a list of my finishes and it was actually in order to argue against his idea and support your idea of top 1k being achievable, or at least target worthy.
A side effect was assuaging my massive ego in listing my FPL achievements but primarily it was to support your idea.
And yes,the years I didn't mention are bad years. I don't think I'm infallible by any means.


People aren't offended by your ideas. Some people think your ideas are good. Some people think some of them are bad. It's not coz it's 'outside the box thinking', it's coz they think some of your ideas are bad. Very simple.
So they think Bolasie as a possible captain choice is bad.

Bolasie is in his 3rd season in the premier league.
In his first season iirc correctly, he was the player with the most shots without scoring a goal. In his 2nd season he scored 4 goals. 3 of those came in 1 game. This season he has scored 2 goals.
So in 70 premier league games, he has scored in 4 games. In his career he has 29 goals in 285 matches for a return of a goal every ~10 games. The historical stats suggest he's not a captain option.

Now, there are reasons to believe those stats don't accurately reflect his output going forward.
As you say, he has been working on his finishing. He is playing in a good side without a prolific CF, so the system requires a lot of the goals to come from the midfielders. He has scored a few recently. He certainly has good assist potential. So there is scope to believe he may improve on his historical output.
In fact Bolasie looks a fairly popular enabler for Aguero money. People have bought him, nearly 20k nett transfer in last week. And he was in the FFS Scout picks team of the week last week.
He's not someone who I was interested in but he was a reasonable option considering their fixtures.
What people are challenging and what is outside the box, is the idea that he is a reasonable captaincy option. Some people, myself included, think that's a bad idea. Not a ludicrous idea but I think you clearly have better options. That's my opinion. I'm not threatened by your opinion and I'm not offended. I just think it's a bad option in light of other options.

Discussion on here is not to reach consensus on the best players for everybody to have. It's to discuss the merits and drawbacks of various players and for people to make their own choices after that discussion.
If someone puts up a player that people think is a bad idea, expect the idea to be challenged.
If I put up an outside the box idea, I expect people to challenge it. We then debate it and hopefully we both arrive at a better understanding of the players merits.

What an outstanding response.

Bravo Sir.

[Mo Bot]

Ageuro for me. Southampton look like flat track bullies with cleanies against bottom half teams only. Losing 3 to Man U and Everton suggests there's enough there for a decent score. I also just don't trust Lukaku week in week out yet. He had his in week last week.

[NoEyeDeer]

Really tempted by Kane, but has to be Sanchez after his CL exploits I think. He usually likes going back to back with his explosive hauls.

Then again Lukaku could quite easily be in line for his 3 or 4 goal haul for Everton.

I still have NoEyeDeer.