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Discussion around good; very good or genius FPL players

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Blaze
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Discussion around good; very good or genius FPL players

Post by Blaze »

baganboy wrote:Nobody over here is an FPL genius. Good players, yes. Very good players, yes. FPL genius, no.
I beg to differ.

Sure, there may not be any on FISO, but Ville is 100% certainly considered an FPL genius.

http://fantasy.premierleague.com/entry/366766/history/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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liquidfootball2
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Re: Ángel Di María (Manchester United)

Post by liquidfootball2 »

Blaze wrote:
baganboy wrote:Nobody over here is an FPL genius. Good players, yes. Very good players, yes. FPL genius, no.
I beg to differ.

Sure, there may not be any on FISO, but Ville is 100% certainly considered an FPL genius.

http://fantasy.premierleague.com/entry/366766/history/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What an outstanding record, never seen one that good

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From4corners
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Re: Ángel Di María (Manchester United)

Post by From4corners »

I just wanted to say the same thing, that is so damn impressive :shock:

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Re: Ángel Di María (Manchester United)

Post by MorrisonDullforce »

I get the impression he is copying my team.

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Carlos Kickaball
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Re: Ángel Di María (Manchester United)

Post by Carlos Kickaball »

liquidfootball2 wrote:
Blaze wrote:
baganboy wrote:Nobody over here is an FPL genius. Good players, yes. Very good players, yes. FPL genius, no.
I beg to differ.

Sure, there may not be any on FISO, but Ville is 100% certainly considered an FPL genius.

http://fantasy.premierleague.com/entry/366766/history/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What an outstanding record, never seen one that good
It's a good record, but if you look at enough player's records, you'll eventually find one that good.

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eastcentral1
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Re: Ángel Di María (Manchester United)

Post by eastcentral1 »

Carlos Kickaball wrote:
liquidfootball2 wrote:
Blaze wrote:
baganboy wrote:Nobody over here is an FPL genius. Good players, yes. Very good players, yes. FPL genius, no.
I beg to differ.

Sure, there may not be any on FISO, but Ville is 100% certainly considered an FPL genius.

http://fantasy.premierleague.com/entry/366766/history/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What an outstanding record, never seen one that good
It's a good record, but if you look at enough player's records, you'll eventually find one that good.
It's an outstanding record. (Not sure why it's relevant that if you trawled through enough players you could find a better one... I certainly wouldn't want to take on the task of looking).

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Carlos Kickaball
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Re: Ángel Di María (Manchester United)

Post by Carlos Kickaball »

It's relevant because I'm saying that for an individual it is impressive, but if you look through big enough communities, someone is likely to have done very well.

For example if you got 1000 people to toss a coin 8 times, and get as many heads as they could, it wouldn't be surprising that at least one got 8 heads.

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Re: Ángel Di María (Manchester United)

Post by Stemania »

There's a decent enough list on FFS' Hall of Fame of which Ville is top. I guess where Blaze found him in the first place.

I presonally prefer the record of Ulrik Nylund and Kenneth Tang to that of Ville Ronka, but there you go. On fiso, I rekon handcockjr (Julian Hancock) has just about the best record - I'm sure he'd be first to admit he's had a couple of 'dodgy' years recently, especially one - still 14th in the FFS list though.
Last edited by Stemania on 21 Oct 2014, 12:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Carlos Kickaball
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Re: Ángel Di María (Manchester United)

Post by Carlos Kickaball »

Yep, that's what I expected, it's a selection of the best result from a large community.

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Re: Ángel Di María (Manchester United)

Post by murf »

Carlos Kickaball wrote:For example if you got 1000 people to toss a coin 8 times, and get as many heads as they could, it wouldn't be surprising that at least one got 8 heads.
1 in 256 so you should get around 4 sucessful :wink:

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Re: Ángel Di María (Manchester United)

Post by Stemania »

It's worth noting that spiderm4tt (27th on the FFS list) won fpl after frankly having a pretty shoddy record from the four previous years. He hinted at his quality the two years before, but you probably wouldn't have picked him as a winner on his previous overall record.

There are many on FISO with records similar to spidey's 2008-2012 finishes of 45141, 32690, 173019, 272534, and his results since then (1 then 995) just show that you shouldn't guage people's ability at this game by their record alone. You should judge them on what they say, and whether their arguments make sense.

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Re: Ángel Di María (Manchester United)

Post by liquidfootball2 »

Spidey's record prior to the win gives hope to us all. :grin:

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Blaze
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Re: Ángel Di María (Manchester United)

Post by Blaze »

Stemania wrote:There's a decent enough list on FFS' Hall of Fame of which Ville is top. I guess where Blaze found him in the first place.

I presonally prefer the record of Ulrik Nylund and Kenneth Tang to that of Ville Ronka, but there you go. On fiso, I rekon handcockjr (Julian Hancock) has just about the best record - I'm sure he'd be first to admit he's had a couple of 'dodgy' years recently, especially one - still 14th in the FFS list though.
Ulrik, Kenneth and hancockjr would only come under baganboy's 'very good' category. Ville is a genius, plain a simple.

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Blaze
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Re: Ángel Di María (Manchester United)

Post by Blaze »

Stemania wrote:It's worth noting that spiderm4tt (27th on the FFS list) won fpl after frankly having a pretty shoddy record from the four previous years. He hinted at his quality the two years before, but you probably wouldn't have picked him as a winner on his previous overall record.

There are many on FISO with records similar to spidey's 2008-2012 finishes of 45141, 32690, 173019, 272534, and his results since then (1 then 995) just show that you shouldn't guage people's ability at this game by their record alone. You should judge them on what they say, and whether their arguments make sense.
Stemania, that's biggest load of bollocks I've ever heard come from you.

A player's season history should be the only way to judge someone's ability at FPL.

Whether their arguments make sense is a completely separate matter all together, and a point that you have clearly made to suit your own personal agenda.

You're one of the biggest stat perverts on here, however you do make some good posts and use well reasoned logic, but that doesn't make you good at FPL unless your history proves it.

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Re: Ángel Di María (Manchester United)

Post by Douglas Reynholm »

Have to agree (spit) a lot of people come across like they make a lot of sense, click on their records and the numbers don't support it.

I guess knowing about football and knowing how the game works are two different things.

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Carlos Kickaball
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Re: Ángel Di María (Manchester United)

Post by Carlos Kickaball »

murf wrote:
Carlos Kickaball wrote:For example if you got 1000 people to toss a coin 8 times, and get as many heads as they could, it wouldn't be surprising that at least one got 8 heads.
1 in 256 so you should get around 4 sucessful :wink:
You could say 98% chance of getting at least one with eight heads. :wink:
Stemania wrote:You should judge them on what they say, and whether their arguments make sense.
Spot on, there is plenty of luck involved in this game, and you could actually have a very good record by merely following the consensus on most decisions and being fortunate.

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Blaze
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Re: Ángel Di María (Manchester United)

Post by Blaze »

Carlos Kickaball wrote:
Stemania wrote:You should judge them on what they say, and whether their arguments make sense.
Spot on, there is plenty of luck involved in this game, and you could actually have a very good record by merely following the consensus on most decisions and being fortunate.
Oh come on Carlos, get serious!

You and and Stemania are trying to make yourselves look better than what you are just because you can form well reasoned opinions and quote stats to support your claims.

Unless your history shows it there's no other way to prove how good you are at FPL.
Last edited by Blaze on 21 Oct 2014, 13:15, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ángel Di María (Manchester United)

Post by Douglas Reynholm »

Luck is only a smart part of the game and a factor everyone has to deal with.

You are not going to be lucky for 38 weeks a year, year after year.

You often find people hide behind luck when they don't do too well and need something to hide behind.

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Re: Ángel Di María (Manchester United)

Post by Mo Bot »

Past performance doesn't necessarily guarantee future returns. Even though an impressive record does lend a bit of weight to an opinion, it is nothing more than opinion.

For anyone to say that Ville's record is anything other than spectacular is a fool. To consistently get in the top 0.1% isn't luck, it's a high level of skill and I imagine commitment.

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Re: Ángel Di María (Manchester United)

Post by Stemania »

Let's just say I find it suprising that an fpl 'genius' like Ville would own Mannone and not own Aguero at this point. He's only 25 points ahead of me and I've had a dodgy start. Even you have done better than that! :wink:

Many 'poorer' players championed the importance of getting Kun in the last few weeks (even for a hit), and if anyone disregarded their advice they'd be worse off. My point is that not every decision a 'top' player makes is a good one, they just make a higher number of the 'better' decisions in the long run, which I'm sure Ville does to an extreme. On any one particular decision anyone's point is valid so long as they can back it up with a reasoned argument.

Many of us disagreed with spiderm4tt's idea that Costa was a better captaincy pick than Aguero two weeks ago due to the huge difference in ownership. I still disagree and think on the day Aguero captainers were very unlucky not to outscore Costa captainers by much more than they did. Does it make spidey a poor fpl manager - no, he seems one of the very best - but I think he was wrong on that one.

I'd never use my record as some sort of evidence that anything I say was valid. Maybe I've just religeously followed really good advice from others on FISO for my entire fpl career, or just played all season using the FFS watchlist. My fiance played for a year a couple or seasons ago and finished top 3000 odd by just transferring in those at the top of that watchlist. Does that make her a good player or someone worth listening to (on the subject of fpl)? As I mentioned at the time her initial strategy before I told her of FFS was to pick players whose surnames rhymed with hers or who where 'lush'. :lol:

(For the record, CK is exactly the type of poster I'm defending. His record is embaressingly terribly awful, but he makes a lot of sense - when he isn't arguing with me that is :wink: ).

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Re: Ángel Di María (Manchester United)

Post by Stemania »

gunnersaurus wrote:a lot of people come across like they make a lot of sense, click on their records and the numbers don't support it.
And vice versa? :wink:

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Re: Ángel Di María (Manchester United)

Post by Carlos Kickaball »

My record is practically non existent, as all my previous seasons I've lost interest before January. :lol:

Also, this is the first season I've started whilst being a member here, and I think being in a community like this is a great help even to the best of players.

To illustrate our point, I once saw a debate on FFS about whether you should look at statistics, or watch matches; lots of people started bringing their record into it, then one guy chirped up that he had a better record than most of them and did neither. :lol:

I think that Gunner is right, that there are casual players who know a lot about football, but maybe don't understand a lot about the nature of FPL. If you know FPL well you should be able to spot their blindspots and still use their insight, I'd also imagine that a casual player that knows his football, can pretty quickly become au fait with the rules of the game.
Last edited by Carlos Kickaball on 21 Oct 2014, 13:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ángel Di María (Manchester United)

Post by Stemania »

Carlos Kickaball wrote: To illustrate our point, I once saw a debate on FFS about whether you should look at statistics, or watch matches; lots of people started bringing their record into it, then one guy chirped up that he had a better record than most of them and did neither. :lol:
Maybe that's why you've always stopped by January in the past - you've got lost in the abominable pit of dispair that is the FFS comments system and not found your way out until the following July. :lol:

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Re: Ángel Di María (Manchester United)

Post by liquidfootball2 »

That will have been the same guy who did 100 coin flips guessing correctly every time wouln't it? :lol:

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Re: Ángel Di María (Manchester United)

Post by Devil's Advocate »

I am a perfect example of one of those people that knows the game of football well, but has a consistently terrible record in FPL. :D

Whilst luck plays a small part mainly with captain choices, the best players can do the simple things consistently that most of us can't. They are; not drinking and tinkering, being patient, keeping transfers to a minimum, not taking pt hits, setting and following a plan for future transfers, and not panicking due to stats and information found on sites like this one.

I know I for one can't do any of those things, but then I don't claim to be a great FPL player, and have only ever played to compete in my cash league, and disregard overall rankings.

This game is about discipline as much as anything, as if you can be disciplined enough to do all the things I listed, I think anyone with even a general idea of the game and players, coupled with the net as a research tool, can compete quite well in the overall rankings.

One season I may just challenge myself to make a serious effort overall, and try implementing the discipline side of things.

EDIT: Oops, sorry mod, I must have submitted the post at the same time you did yours. Feel free to move it with the rest.
Last edited by stuboy on 21 Oct 2014, 13:50, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Done, thanks

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Re: Discussion aroung good; very good or genius FPL players

Post by stuboy »

Mod note:

An interesting debate, which has been discussed more than once but happy for it to be revisited. However a friendly reminder to keep it civil as I anticipate there will not be a consensus on this topic, so if you disagree with what you read, remember "attack the post, not the poster".

Thanks

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Re: Ángel Di María (Manchester United)

Post by Finisher1 »

gunnersaurus wrote: I guess knowing about football and knowing how the game works are two different things.
I agree. Too many people here are presenting way too soft arguments like "he is world class player", "that's why world's biggest clubs pay millions for players like him", "he is so important for any team he is playing" and "did you see his pass last week? that's just world class, there are just few players in the world who can do that".

Those kind of arguments are just irrelevant. It doesn't matter who is "world class" in the real world. Fantasy football is only about goals, goals, goals, goals, goals and goals.

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Re: Discussion around good; very good or genius FPL players

Post by Carlos Kickaball »

Yes, but if a player has a poor knowledge of FPL but knows a lot about football, they are still likely to make some very good points, and any FPL errors they make will easily be spotted and corrected by others. Soft arguments like that regularly get shot down quickly.

Anyone with a poor FPL record and understanding, can become knowledgeable about the workings of FPL very quickly in a forum like this.

On luck, while most of us will regularly beat more casual managers, I actually think it's a reasonable factor between serious players, illustrated by the fact that quite a few of us are ahead of Spiderm4tt and Ville this season. You should almost always finish in the top 20% of players, but top 5k and above finishes don't happen if you're unlucky.
Finisher1 wrote:Fantasy football is only about goals, goals, goals, goals, goals and goals.
And assists, clean sheets, bonus and appearance points. Not to mention some people avoid players as they are card magnets. :lol:

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Re: Discussion around good; very good or genius FPL players

Post by tommygun25 »

My main league rival has an outstanding record. Although he has had a slow start this year.

Last year he blow everyone away in my cash league and finished fourth and deserved to win it.
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Re: Discussion around good; very good or genius FPL players

Post by tommygun25 »

Blaze wrote:
baganboy wrote:Nobody over here is an FPL genius. Good players, yes. Very good players, yes. FPL genius, no.
I beg to differ.

Sure, there may not be any on FISO, but Ville is 100% certainly considered an FPL genius.

http://fantasy.premierleague.com/entry/366766/history/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
No one can compete with that record. Looks rigged :D

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