Juan Mata (Manchester United)

[Bergkamp_22]

Meaning 4-1-2-1-2

[Stemania]

Meaning 4-1-2-1-2

Or 433.

To be honest, if you look in the Falcao thread and earlier here, it's exactly the setup most were predicting. A change to this system has been inevitable since van Gaal took over, whatever Giggs11 will have you believe...

[Taff Murray]

I really don't know what to do about Mr Mata. Jt.7th highest scoring MF with Sterling yet his price keeps dropping and Sterlings rising. Both Scneiderlin and Dyer I cannot see staying in the top 10 MF's for the season so that would put Mata into the top 5 if he continues at this current rate. 4 games 23 pts Av.5.75/GW. So why is everybody baling him out. Purely based on speculation as to whether he will play or not. Yet he has started every game so far. It is a conundrum right now as to whether to stick or twist with him. Losing money but he's scoring points unlike a lot of my others. I suppose a swap to Di Maria or Fabregas wouldn't hurt but to Sterling I am not sure. The only thing that might sway the decision in Sterlings favour is the forthcoming LIV fixtures compared with UTD's.

What to do!! Oh! What to do???

[Stemania]

What to do!! Oh! What to do???

I think you have to sell him now. By the looks of that substitution it's him that will lose his place when Falcao is fully fit. Take the points and run.

[Carlb5253]

I thought Mata was outstanding today, i think he is better than Rooney at playing behind the strikers. Although RVP played better when Rooney dropped deeper.

It is a conundrum.

[Notned]

I thought Mata was outstanding today, i think he is better than Rooney at playing behind the strikers. Although RVP played better when Rooney dropped deeper.

It is a conundrum.

Mata does indeed excel in that role, but Rooney is captain.. in a straight choice between the two, he is surely the one who gets the nod.

For what it's worth I would probably drop RVP, or at least rotate him until Falcao is fully fit. Rooney up top alongside, Mata in behind.

[Stemania]

I actually thought he was pretty poor again, but just found himself in some fantastic positions 3 or 4 times. Not as poor as RVP mind you.

[Giggs11]

Meaning 4-1-2-1-2

Or 433.

To be honest, if you look in the Falcao thread and earlier here, it's exactly the setup most were predicting. A change to this system has been inevitable since van Gaal took over, whatever Giggs11 will have you believe...

You mean the system Van Gaal implemented himself when HE took over?

I was simply going off what the manager was saying, not second guessing him like some sort of coaching expert. Time will tell if today's formation is the one he continues with or if he varies the formations depending on the opponents and match situation. I'd be guessing it's the latter but you go ahead and think you've been proven correct by a home game against the worst team in the league ...

[Stemania]

Meaning 4-1-2-1-2

Or 433.

To be honest, if you look in the Falcao thread and earlier here, it's exactly the setup most were predicting. A change to this system has been inevitable since van Gaal took over, whatever Giggs11 will have you believe...

You mean the system Van Gaal implemented himself when HE took over?

I was simply going off what the manager was saying, not second guessing him like some sort of coaching expert. Time will tell if today's formation is the one he continues with or if he varies the formations depending on the opponents and match situation. I'd be guessing it's the latter but you go ahead and think you've been proven correct by a home game against the worst team in the league ...

He he, I was hoping you would bite. It wasn't second guessing - we've known for ages this is van Gaal's preferred system as me and f4c have been repeating all season. The 352 was just the best fit for the personnel at the start of the season as van Gaal said. I only mentioned it due to how much of a hard time you gave us over it at the time for saying it was an inevitable transition. I think you'll find I even mentioned Blind as the likely one to come in to facilitate the move.

[Giggs11]

Hard time?
I disagreed with your "second guesses" and still do. Maybe Van Gaal told you different.

[gazwood]

I actually thought he was pretty poor again, but just found himself in some fantastic positions 3 or 4 times. Not as poor as RVP mind you.

Seriously

Thought he was excellent. RVP should definitely be the one it make way, unfortunately I don't see that happening.

[Bergkamp_22]

Mata certainly wasn't excellent, but look we're arguing between top tier players here and i'm tempted to start a poll+topic on this.

Di Maria - Excellent
Ander - Excellent
Rooney - Very good

RVP - Letdown
Mata - Okay, better than okay but not very good.
Falcao - Promising

All top tier players, it's down to who plays the most and plays the vital part in this team. This machine can be run by 6 different cogs and you need to work out who will play the part the most. Very interesting United team this season, now it looks like they may have just clicked. I'll give one more week before i decide to jump on another Utd player, happy with just Di Maria for now.

[gazwood]

Disagree. Much better than the average rating you've given him IMO.

[Bergkamp_22]

That's fair enough not saying he was bad, but in comparison to the other players i would rate him below- all own opinion

[matmutte]

Mata has been great today, his runs behind the defence are just amazing. That's how you can end up at the right place at the right time.
Di Maria has been excellent as well, altough his point tally is way out of line. 1 flukey goal and a missed shot ending up as an assist. Not sure he's justifying 9.5m at the moment.
But the MOM was Herrera of course.

[shawpower]

I actually thought he was pretty poor again, but just found himself in some fantastic positions 3 or 4 times. Not as poor as RVP mind you.

Isn't that what Mata has done since coming to the Prem? Pop up in great positions and bag goals? He's no pace. His passing is average. He is like a Spanish version of Muller in a way. Just keeps getting in good goal positions and scoring. His record since he started playing behind the front two, rather than out on the Wing that the neanderthal tactician Moyes tried, has been phenomenal. I doubt any other midfielder has matched his goals in that period....

If you want someone to light up the game then he's not your man. Get AdM instead. But for someone to keep bagging goals, stick.

The issue for Utd now, is they backed themselves into a corner with Rooney thanks in part to Moyes (again) but also by LVG giving him the armband. He's not the best 9 anymore since Falcao arrived, and arguably not even the 2nd best if RvP finds his form again. But Mata is a better 10 in lots of ways. So to accommodate their captain, they'll possibly weaken the team.

In relation to the system, LVG said the flip to 442 (41212) was due to running out of central defenders, with Smalling and Jones both out. So either he doesn't trust Rojo yet in that role due to him being new, or else he just sees him as a LB. So it might not be the end of 352 yet. But against such an appalling QPR side, it's really hard to judge.

[stuboy]

The issue for Utd now, is they backed themselves into a corner with Rooney thanks in part to Moyes (again) but also by LVG giving him the armband. He's not the best 9 anymore since Falcao arrived, and arguably not even the 2nd best if RvP finds his form again.

So for now, Rooney is the current "2nd best number 9" according to your assessment. I don't see any corner that United have backed themselves into. Competition for places; cover for injuries; ability to change looks/formations/players.

Just because Rooney has the captain armband doesn't mean he isn't dropable - but based on the first 4 games of this season, he isn't LVG's biggest question mark at the moment.

[The Real Slim Shady]

di Maria will be the better pick overall now.

I've just done Mata ADM

[shawpower]

The issue for Utd now, is they backed themselves into a corner with Rooney thanks in part to Moyes (again) but also by LVG giving him the armband. He's not the best 9 anymore since Falcao arrived, and arguably not even the 2nd best if RvP finds his form again.

So for now, Rooney is the current "2nd best number 9" according to your assessment. I don't see any corner that United have backed themselves into. Competition for places; cover for injuries; ability to change looks/formations/players.

Just because Rooney has the captain armband doesn't mean he isn't dropable - but based on the first 4 games of this season, he isn't LVG's biggest question mark at the moment.

Totally agree, and wasn't suggesting it. Your points about squad strength etc. are also well made.

For me, Rooney is a waning player. I'm not saying he's bad. Just that he's not as good as he was. And if/when LvG has a fully fit and in form squad to pick from, he wouldn't necessarily get into it on merit. Which was kind of my point about him being club captain. If they're dropping Mata to accommodate the captain, then they've weakened the team a bit imho. Certainly with regards to current form (even if Mata's general play isn't necessarily top notch).

[Stemania]

He's no pace. His passing is average. He is like a Spanish version of Muller in a way.

You really underrate Muller imo - one of the best players in the world for me. Unbelievable work rate.

[ricardo68]

I think Mata is definitely worth holding on to. Thanks for the goal and repaying my faith

[shawpower]

He's no pace. His passing is average. He is like a Spanish version of Muller in a way.

You really underrate Muller imo - one of the best players in the world for me. Unbelievable work rate.

I'm not under-rating him at all. He's absolutely one of the best players in the world. But it's also known, and admitted by former coaches, that on the training ground he never set the place alight. There are no silky skills. No amazing passing or dribbling ability. It's only when he's on the pitch that he shows his ability. He's a fantastic reader of the game, so he can see where he needs to get to and scores lots of goals.

Hence my comparison with Mata. He's not as good, but he's similar traits. Mata doesn't contribute that much from an attacking point of view, doesn't have that pace and his passing can be hit or miss, apart from all the goals he scores! Which naturally means he does contribute loads.

And yeah, Mata doesn't have a good work rate, so Muller beats him there too. (I never mentioned Muller not having a good work rate btw)

[Fuzz]

Based on that performance it should be RVP missing out. Not sure LVG will see it that way though...

[quarky]

I guess the question is, at what price does Mata become good value?

[Robin Write]

I guess the question is, at what price does Mata become good value?

To me he is a Man United outlet, I am not really too bothered about value. If he stops providing the goods and/or is dropped then I will get rid.

[ricardo68]

Scores of 2, 10, 3 & 8 he's ok by me

[Billy Bongo]

He's done ok, but they've played 2 promoted teams and Sunderland. Those points are to be expected for a 9m mid with those fixtures.

[Giggs11]

No they haven't...

[Robin Write]

Yeah this thread is beyond boring now as well. There has been some funny results already so I don't think the fixtures argument needs to be this worn down at this stage of the season.

[jonhoggy]

Let's hope the predicted starting lineups are wrong again. I'm holding Mata for one more week #beboldandhold #ignorethepatterkeepMata