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The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014 - 15

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JoonaR16
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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by JoonaR16 »

I don't understand why people are saying that EPL is physical league compared to others. After watching Mainz-Wolfsburg earlier, it looks like this QPR-Everton game doesn't have any tempo at all. Game speed is so much slower. Also quiet stadium makes it look even more like lower league game.

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liquidfootball2
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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by liquidfootball2 »

Costa hamstring - not serious hopefully but nuisance

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Sammy the Crab
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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by Sammy the Crab »

Costa subbed, possible hamstring problem.

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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by Aldershot Rejects »

Remy (Willian).

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liquidfootball2
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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by liquidfootball2 »

Everton ahead again Lennon

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nufctoon
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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by nufctoon »

Lennon (Coleman)

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Stemania
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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by Stemania »

JoonaR16 wrote:I don't understand why people are saying that EPL is physical league compared to others.
That wasn't claimed at all, just that the lower half of the Spanish league lacks the physicality of the PL. Every league has it's own qualities, and La Liga is more technical. The German league is very physical, but not as strong as the PL in terms of the level of competition.
JoonaR16 wrote: After watching Mainz-Wolfsburg earlier, it looks like this QPR-Everton game doesn't have any tempo at all. Game speed is so much slower. Also quiet stadium makes it look even more like lower league game.
I don't think 2nd vs 11th in the German league is useful yardstick for 14th vs 19th in the PL.

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Bao
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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by Bao »

Sammy the Crab wrote:Costa subbed, possible hamstring problem.
At least he has no YC today. :lol:

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liquidfootball2
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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by liquidfootball2 »

Rode our luck but won 1-2

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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by moonlightdribbler »

Aldershot Rejects wrote:Lukaku injured?

Yes, looked like hamstring. Kone also went off injured.

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um09a2k
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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by um09a2k »

Lol at Mourinho giving Steve Bruce a thumbs up before heading off down the tunnel

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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by moonlightdribbler »

nufctoon wrote:Lennon (Coleman)

Will Coleman get awarded that? I can never keep up with what qualifies an assist when a cross goes into the box, but it was a cross that failed to reach it's intended target, and Lennon finished the rebound.

thesilkworm
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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by thesilkworm »

Haven't seen it but FPL site have given it.

FPL policy at the moment seems to be 'when in doubt, just give the assist'. Several dubious ones recently.

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liquidfootball2
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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by liquidfootball2 »

Sounds like best to hang fire on Costa

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Carlos Kickaball
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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by Carlos Kickaball »

I am hoping they will flag him, then it's very unlikely people will rush to bring him in. :)

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liquidfootball2
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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by liquidfootball2 »

It could be a tactically astute international injury

JoonaR16
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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by JoonaR16 »

Stemania wrote:
JoonaR16 wrote:I don't understand why people are saying that EPL is physical league compared to others.
That wasn't claimed at all, just that the lower half of the Spanish league lacks the physicality of the PL. Every league has it's own qualities, and La Liga is more technical. The German league is very physical, but not as strong as the PL in terms of the level of competition.
I agree with Spanish league. It's more skillful league and the physicality is replaced with passing and other techinal abilities. In my opinion, Bundesliga and 2. Bundesliga are more physical compared to EPL and Championship. And the level of competition part. You say that EPL has more competition because even small clubs can compete with bigger clubs. Well, Bundesliga has the same thing if you don't count Bayern (which is probably the best club in the world right now). Lets compare Leverkusen (3rd) to Paderborn (17th, 2nd last). They have only 21 points difference. Now comparing Arsenal (3rd) to QPR (19th, 2nd last) or Sunderland (17th). They have 38 points difference to QPR and 34 points to Sunderland. That would suggest that bottom EPL clubs aren't so good after all. No one can of course compete with Bayern which is negative thing in Bundesliga, but that doesn't mean rest of the clubs are bad. Bundesliga clubs compete almost always better in UCL or Europa league compared to EPL.

So there's a few clubs who can compete with each other, then the competition drops. Bundesliga has one really good club and after that competition stays pretty steady.
Stemania wrote:
JoonaR16 wrote: After watching Mainz-Wolfsburg earlier, it looks like this QPR-Everton game doesn't have any tempo at all. Game speed is so much slower. Also quiet stadium makes it look even more like lower league game.
I don't think 2nd vs 11th in the German league is useful yardstick for 14th vs 19th in the PL.
The physicality doesn't really change when going to lower level of skill. 2. Bundesliga is also very physical and fast paced league. I've once seen Championship match on the stadium and it also looked physical but it didn't have so much idea, just long air balls. In Germany there's lots of pressing which makes them need to pass a lot and it makes game faster but unlike England they don't make meaningless long passing, instead of that they play it to free player and try to attack somewhere else.

Big crowd attendance and fans play big role in Germany which in my opinion raises the competition and helps home team teams to success. Even some 2nd league clubs have +40k average attendance which is nowhere near to England.

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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by ctibbits »

I will never argue with you or anyone about the merits of the Bundisliga. They can even do terrace "seating" in their stands safely. Just when you start big talking La Liga that gets some of us ruffled.

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liquidfootball2
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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by liquidfootball2 »

If Skrtel gets a retrospective ban, will it be three games inc FA cup, so back for 34?

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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by gooberman »

moonlightdribbler wrote:
nufctoon wrote:Lennon (Coleman)

Will Coleman get awarded that? I can never keep up with what qualifies an assist when a cross goes into the box, but it was a cross that failed to reach it's intended target, and Lennon finished the rebound.
Yet again like last week with Sturridge, another assist awarded which is contrary to the definition of assists in their rules. Coleman crosses, defender blocks it and significantly alters the direction of the ball before Lennon scores. I've lost count of the number of times this has happened this season. It's a disgrace.

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Stemania
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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by Stemania »

JoonaR16 wrote: The physicality doesn't really change when going to lower level of skill. 2. Bundesliga is also very physical and fast paced league. I've once seen Championship match on the stadium and it also looked physical but it didn't have so much idea, just long air balls. In Germany there's lots of pressing which makes them need to pass a lot and it makes game faster but unlike England they don't make meaningless long passing, instead of that they play it to free player and try to attack somewhere else.

Big crowd attendance and fans play big role in Germany which in my opinion raises the competition and helps home team teams to success. Even some 2nd league clubs have +40k average attendance which is nowhere near to England.
Yes, I completely agree regarding 2. Bundesliga. The beauty of the EPL is that the money is spread out relatively evenly, and there is so much of it for everyone. But, what that money doesn't do is trickle down to the lower leagues of English football very effectively. As a consequence I wouldn't claim that the standard of the Championship is above the level of their European equivalents (not that I see much, if any, lower league football from other countries). I would actually expect the gap to become even greater in the next few years (with the new tv deal) and we may seen reach a point where it's a bit of a surprise for any promoted side from the Championship can be particularly effective in the PL without huge investment.

The fans in Germany are unbelievable, definitely. :D
JoonaR16 wrote: And the level of competition part. You say that EPL has more competition because even small clubs can compete with bigger clubs. Well, Bundesliga has the same thing if you don't count Bayern (which is probably the best club in the world right now). Lets compare Leverkusen (3rd) to Paderborn (17th, 2nd last). They have only 21 points difference. Now comparing Arsenal (3rd) to QPR (19th, 2nd last) or Sunderland (17th). They have 38 points difference to QPR and 34 points to Sunderland. That would suggest that bottom EPL clubs aren't so good after all. No one can of course compete with Bayern which is negative thing in Bundesliga, but that doesn't mean rest of the clubs are bad. Bundesliga clubs compete almost always better in UCL or Europa league compared to EPL.

So there's a few clubs who can compete with each other, then the competition drops. Bundesliga has one really good club and after that competition stays pretty steady.
I guess it's worth mentioning that I agree that the Bundelsliga is the nearest in terms of the level of competition, probably helped by the fact there are only 18 teams. My original comment on the strength of the lower half of the PL included the caveat "although the Bundesliga isn't terrible", but maybe even that was a bit of a disservice. It's the other major European league with a fairly reasonable split of the money between the whole league, so this probably isn't surprising anyway. :)

When specifically comparing the EPL to the German league, I think you've really got to look at the top. The quality and depth of the teams competing for the Champions League spots in the EPL is particularly frightening. Chelsea, Man City, Arsenal, Man United, Liverpool, Spurs are an extremely strong group completely unrivaled in Germany's league imo. That's not even mentioning this seasons left field top drawer challenger draw Southampton. In Germany as you say, it's broadly one club, a big gap, and then a smooth gradient for the rest - even the team finishing in second seems to vary wildly every season. In England it's really a group of 6, then the rest (or at worst a kindof 2,2,2-the-rest), all of those six regularly spending 50m-100m on transfers a season. The rest of the league probably does have a similar gradient to Germany, but I'd argue that both have a much less steep gradient than the leagues of Italy or Spain.

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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by ruudy »

Well i can think of some things that really are a disgrace but none of them are related to a game played on my phone based on the english premier league where the prize is a football and a copy of last years fifa :D

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Stemania
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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by Stemania »

gooberman wrote:
moonlightdribbler wrote:
nufctoon wrote:Lennon (Coleman)

Will Coleman get awarded that? I can never keep up with what qualifies an assist when a cross goes into the box, but it was a cross that failed to reach it's intended target, and Lennon finished the rebound.
Yet again like last week with Sturridge, another assist awarded which is contrary to the definition of assists in their rules. Coleman crosses, defender blocks it and significantly alters the direction of the ball before Lennon scores. I've lost count of the number of times this has happened this season. It's a disgrace.
I think we should really change our interpretation a bit on the back of these decisions. We've been kindof assuming that any big enough deflection and it's no assist. But the rule actually implies that the size of defection doesn't matter if the ball still reaches it's intended destination. "If an opposing player touches the ball after the final pass before a goal is scored, significantly altering the intended destination of the ball, then no assist is awarded" is the formulation. Presumably they simply decided that Lennon was the intended recipient, but I must admit I can't now remember the goal. It is worth noting though, that last weeks assist is an assist by this new (possibly correct) interpretation, the frustration is that they maybe haven't seemed to stick by this interpretation in the past.

What I do find ridiculous though, is things like the fact that Clyne's assist yesterday counts because he was having a shot - even though it was deflected hugely, went through a crowd of people, under another attackers foot and eventually fell to the goalscorer. Whether the shot was on or off target, wildly ambitious or even foolish is irrelivant; the rule only cares about intention. Whereas, if a player plays a perfect cross into the box and it gets deflected to a player different to it's intended recipient who then scores, then it's no assist. The odd thing then is, an assist is also awarded for a pass that provides an assist, whether or not the pass was intentional, so if there is no deflection intention means nothing. :?

I guess their problem is, it's surely fair to award an assist for a blocked shot in many circumstances, and to an accidental pass leading to a goal, but it's impossible to set a reasonable objective rule without encountering ridiculous uncommon situations like the one above.

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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by Carlos Kickaball »

It's worth remembering that the inflow of cash and sharing amongst the team in the Premier League is actually quite a handycap to the top teams, it is much harder for them to poach the top talent proven and settled in their league from lower down the table. Look at Bayern in Germany and they pretty much poach their rivals players.

Comparing to La Liga.

Think of the transfer fees payed for some of these players:

J Allen £15m
Bony £28.5m
Lallana £25m
P Jones £16.5m
Carroll £50m
Fellaini £27.5m
Luke Shaw 30m

Then compare them to some of these:

Rakitić £16m
Jordi Alba £15m
Villa £34m
Griezmann £24m
Filipe Luis £11m
Godin 6.6m
Isco 23m

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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by Stemania »

Just for interest, here's the graphic for the spread of tv rights (including current and new tv deal EPL).

Image

Interestingly, the new deal looks as if it will make the distribution slightly more uneven in England, giving a slightly larger share to the top 7/8 or so clubs than it currently does.

Spain is obviously completely ridiculous, and Italy pretty poor too. Germany's is very even indeed, but tv rights provide a much smaller chunk of the revenue there.

Even the team who finishes 15th in the EPL in the first season of this new deal will earn a comparative amount to Real and Barca, and much much more than any other European team from domestic league tv. Crazy money. :shock:

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Carlos Kickaball
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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by Carlos Kickaball »

Nice graph, I don't think the new deal looks particularly more uneven. Looks like all positions will receive just over 50% more than previously.

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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by Finisher1 »

Spain is really stupid, how on earth can they justify that kind of stuff? No wonder the whole country is in debt crisis, when the moral is that poor.

I have heard the banks there also lend money for Real and Barca with basically no interests or payback plans? And then Spain must take debt from better EU countries :roll:

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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by Bao »

With the new deal, English clubs have more motivation to focus on the local league rather than the European Leagues. It will help English clubs in the long run due to higher revenue but harm them in the short run in European Leagues.

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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by Finisher1 »

Bao wrote:With the new deal, English clubs have more motivation to focus on the local league rather than the European Leagues. It will help English clubs in the long run due to higher revenue but harm them in the short run in European Leagues.
I disagree, because regarding TV deal share it doesn't matter so much whether you are first or sixth.

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Re: The Rounded Keeper - FPL Pubtalk & Matchday Banter 2014

Post by Stemania »

Carlos Kickaball wrote:Nice graph, I don't think the new deal looks particularly more uneven. Looks like all positions will receive just over 50% more than previously.
I think the ratio (from the graph at least, not the numbers) shows something like a 1.55 to 1.65 movement in the ratio of top of the league to bottom of the league, but that may just be because the graph is fairly approximate. So, slight, but possibly a small increase for the big teams (note that even a 0.1 change, if that number is anywhere near accurate, would still be equivalent to over a 10m swing due to the amounts involved). It's definitely not moved significantly (if at all) in the grand scheme of things though, no.

Maybe it's worth mentioning that despite Germany's top-to-bottom ratio looking extremely flat, it's actually at about 2.0 - easily the second best - but still lags behind the new and old prem deals.

Spain's ratio of money to the top club compared to the bottom is nearly 7! :roll:
Last edited by Stemania on 23 Mar 2015, 09:16, edited 1 time in total.

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